4 ms·

If your email address was a secret known only to your existing contacts then how does someone reach you if they don’t already know you?

by ttul 2y ago

Maxion 2y ago
By buying your address from a broker, just like now.
- naasking 2y ago
  Which address are they buying? Every contact you know has a different guid address for you, and as soon as one of those is used for spam, you can revoke it. What value does such an address have to a broker or spammer? Addresses have value now because they are global, easily guessable and harvestable, and difficult for the user to change. The system I'm describing violates all of those properties, thus devaluing the whole spam enterprise.
naasking 2y ago
I've described the introduction protocol in more detail here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40402046 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40402046
- anamax 2y ago
  That relies on introducers/mutual acquaintances, which isn't enough. Here's an easy problem that it doesn't solve. I'm giving a public talk and want to provide an email address so that people can contact me. How do you [1] let legitimate responses get to me AND [2] block illegitimate responses. (Note - I have no control over the audience.)
  - naasking 2y ago
    Each attendee gets their own guid introduction as usual, just by scanning a QR code or something, just before or after the talk. The same basic introduction protocol works here, the QR code just names a guid address that has constraints on it (time-limited maybe, or that limits introductions by number of attendees). Corner cases like this have solutions, and even if they're a bit more awkward, who cares? 99.9% of people who suffer from spam don't encounter these corner cases. Should a solution solve the biggest part of the problem, or prioritize making the corner cases easy?
    - anamax 2y ago
      Attendee? What year is it in your world? (Also, time-limited is stupid for this case.) This isn't an edge case - people pass out addresses expecting to be contacted by randoms all the time. And, most contacts are second-order or further, so introductions aren't even possible because there's no common link. (I pass on "you should contact {other person}" to groups that I don't control all the time.) I get that you're proud of your introductions hammer, but you don't get to ignore the existence of screws.
      - naasking 2y ago
        > Attendee? What year is it in your world? Perhaps you're unaware that most public talks take place at conferences, which yes, still have attendees. > (Also, time-limited is stupid for this case.) Time-limited is perfectly fine policy for some cases. Maybe you have a different case in mind, but that wasn't specified in your scenario. > This isn't an edge case - people pass out addresses expecting to be contacted by randoms all the time. And? If you want to open yourself to a flood of possible spam, then create an address just for that and publish it. Nobody's stopping you. > And, most contacts are second-order or further, so introductions aren't even possible because there's no common link What does "second order" even mean if not "someone I know knows them"? There's nothing stopping the use of public addresses, the point of the proposal is that most people don't need it, and the default public nature of email is what creates the security and spam nightmare that it is.

If your email address was a secret known only to your existing contacts then how does someone reach you if they don’t already know you?

by ttul 2y ago

If your email address was a secret known only to your existing contacts then how does someone reach you if they don’t already know you?

Maxion 2y ago

By buying your address from a broker, just like now.

naasking 2y ago
Which address are they buying? Every contact you know has a different guid address for you, and as soon as one of those is used for spam, you can revoke it. What value does such an address have to a broker or spammer? Addresses have value now because they are global, easily guessable and harvestable, and difficult for the user to change. The system I'm describing violates all of those properties, thus devaluing the whole spam enterprise.

naasking 2y ago

I've described the introduction protocol in more detail here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40402046 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40402046

anamax 2y ago
That relies on introducers/mutual acquaintances, which isn't enough. Here's an easy problem that it doesn't solve. I'm giving a public talk and want to provide an email address so that people can contact me. How do you [1] let legitimate responses get to me AND [2] block illegitimate responses. (Note - I have no control over the audience.)
- naasking 2y ago
  Each attendee gets their own guid introduction as usual, just by scanning a QR code or something, just before or after the talk. The same basic introduction protocol works here, the QR code just names a guid address that has constraints on it (time-limited maybe, or that limits introductions by number of attendees). Corner cases like this have solutions, and even if they're a bit more awkward, who cares? 99.9% of people who suffer from spam don't encounter these corner cases. Should a solution solve the biggest part of the problem, or prioritize making the corner cases easy?
  - anamax 2y ago
    Attendee? What year is it in your world? (Also, time-limited is stupid for this case.) This isn't an edge case - people pass out addresses expecting to be contacted by randoms all the time. And, most contacts are second-order or further, so introductions aren't even possible because there's no common link. (I pass on "you should contact {other person}" to groups that I don't control all the time.) I get that you're proud of your introductions hammer, but you don't get to ignore the existence of screws.
    - naasking 2y ago
      > Attendee? What year is it in your world? Perhaps you're unaware that most public talks take place at conferences, which yes, still have attendees. > (Also, time-limited is stupid for this case.) Time-limited is perfectly fine policy for some cases. Maybe you have a different case in mind, but that wasn't specified in your scenario. > This isn't an edge case - people pass out addresses expecting to be contacted by randoms all the time. And? If you want to open yourself to a flood of possible spam, then create an address just for that and publish it. Nobody's stopping you. > And, most contacts are second-order or further, so introductions aren't even possible because there's no common link What does "second order" even mean if not "someone I know knows them"? There's nothing stopping the use of public addresses, the point of the proposal is that most people don't need it, and the default public nature of email is what creates the security and spam nightmare that it is.