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Korea has a similar lack of obesity. It's not just genetics because Koreans tend to become overweight when living in the US. I think it comes down to two major

Korea has a similar lack of obesity. It's not just genetics because Koreans tend to become overweight when living in the US. I think it comes down to two major factors: 1. Koreans tend to walk (exercise) more. Walk (partway) during commute, walk to lunch, walk to do errands, etc. In the US people just sit in their cars. I personally find I get 3000+ daily steps in Korea without even trying, while in the US I only get about 300 daily steps or so. 2. Diet + portions. My Korean friend was astounded by the amount of fries that came with every meal in the USA and Canada. The US is the only place where fructose is substituted for sugar in most processed food. I've heard fructose inhibits the sense of satiation after eating. So walkable cities and better food options would probably reduce US obesity.

fifilura 2y ago
I am not in the USA, but 300 steps raised my eyebrows! Even 3000 steps seems low on a regular day. This is what you'd get from just moving around in the house?
- Leftium 2y ago
  I noticed 1,000 steps is about 10min of walking. (I used a Fitbit for 6+ months). So 300 steps is about 3 minutes of walking. If I sit at the computer most of the day and don't leave the house, I might get even fewer steps. 3,000 steps would be about 30min of walking. Perhaps I'm more sedentary than average. Sometimes the only steps I get are walking to lunch and back. But I got 15,000+ steps a few days ago because I went out dancing ^^ --- edit: also 300/3000 numbers were from my phone, so would exclude steps when my phone wasn't on me.
  - brianwawok 2y ago
    100 steps a minute is a comical pace. 20-25 is a more reasonable rate.
    - fifilura 2y ago
      100 steps a minute sounds like normal walking speed. With 70 cm step length it means 4 km/h, which is slow walking. 20-25 steps/minute, with 70cm step length will take you to the toilet in one minute.
      - inglor_cz 2y ago
        My brisk pace would be about 120 steps a minute, with 80 cm step (I have long legs), that is about the speed I can sustain for longer time without any sweating.
- goosedragons 2y ago
  I guess it depends how big your house is but on the rare occasions I don't leave my apartment I don't even top 700 steps.
  - fifilura 2y ago
    Yeah, i guess so. I have a 2 storey house and a lot of chores.
0xcde4c3db 2y ago
I don't know the proper sources, but I've read in several places that the Netherlands continues to have rising obesity despite making exactly those sorts of reforms over the past ~40 years.
- Gud 2y ago
  I've lived and worked a lot and in Netherlands and I wouldn't portray it as some exceptionally walkable country. In my opinion, the Netherlands is definitely a car country.
  - banish-m4 2y ago
    Netherlands is a bicycle country. There are fucking bicycle highways and extensive safe, multimode traffic design patterns everywhere. I've ridden them from Amsterdam through the countryside to Belgium. And you haven't been to Los Angeles, Texas, or Florida if you call Netherlands a "car country".
    - Tijdreiziger 2y ago
      40% of rides in the Netherlands are taken by car, vs. only 28% by bicycle. [1] [1] https://www.kimnet.nl/publicaties/publicaties/2023/11/14/mobiliteitsbeeld-2023 https://www.kimnet.nl/publicaties/publicaties/2023/11/14/mob...
      - banish-m4 2y ago
        "Only" 28%? That's damn impressive. In the US, it's around 0.3%. In bicycle-friendly Oregon, it's only 1%. That's an order-of-magnitude to 2 more. https://www.bicycleretailer.com/studies-reports/2021/05/20/bike-commuting-almost-doubles-over-past-two-decades-according-report https://www.bicycleretailer.com/studies-reports/2021/05/20/b...
    - Gud 2y ago
      Yes, there is a lot of bicycling happening in the Netherlands. My point is, it’s not very walkable.
matthewdgreen 2y ago
Americans do more exercise than ever and have also reduced their sugar intake on average, but obesity continues to rise. Is it possible that food additives or something less obvious is having an effect? GLP-1 agonists are a good indicator that even minor chemical interventions can have a huge long-term effect on obesity that dominates diet and exercise, so why do we rule out the possibility of other substances doing the opposite?
- KevinMS 2y ago
  Or just find out how many total calories they are eating, which is probably high.
- maxglute 2y ago
  >Americans do more exercise than ever Are they really? Fitness socials exploded in the last 10 years, many more enthusiasts training harder/longer, but I haven't seen noticably more bodies at the gym.
  - 0xcde4c3db 2y ago
    The number of gyms has skyrocketed in the past few decades, though. Back when the obesity epidemic really took off ca. 1980, "the gym" was a place inhabited primarily by bodybuilders and professional athletes. Regular folks were mostly doing calisthenics/aerobics, often at home following along with Jack LaLanne or Jane Fonda. Today, Planet Fitness is a ~5.5-billion-dollar company.
    - maxglute 2y ago
      Which is why I'm curious about time/scale of effect, and what exactly is meant with "Americans do more exercise than ever". One indicator is # of gym membership: ~30m->~70m in last 25 years, from 10% of population to 20%. Hard to say how much of that is due to gyms getting better at selling memberships because we know they oversubscribe. But per capita figures still suggest that vast plurarity of Americans, the average American, likely 1.5SD / 80%+ of population, probably don't have habit of regular exercise that would overcome effects of increasingly sedimentary life style. So should be ber surprising that obesity continues to increase.
khazhoux 2y ago
> Koreans tend to walk (exercise) more. Walk (partway) during commute, walk to lunch, walk to do errands, etc. In the US people just sit in their cars. People are always going on about walking, but I have a very hard time believing that the lack of low-intensity walking is a major contributing factor for the 250-pound bodies that are so common in the US (especially south and midwest). When you're overwhelming your body with fried food every day and coke at every meal, you ain't gonna keep up with those calories by getting in more steps.
- bravetraveler 2y ago
  Granted, this is hardly accurate/scientific - try out a solid hour walk on a treadmill. A lot of steps for a pittance of calories [based on whatever hand-wavy math it's doing, admittedly]. We're frustratingly efficient. I forget exactly, it was something dumb like half a candy bar. I've heard people say "you won't outrun your mouth", in this context... and others. It's true. I've managed to drop my body weight ~half, it happened by controlling what I ate; not how I exercised. When I stopped skateboarding due to an injury, I ballooned. I stopped eating like that over a decade later, I shrunk. In that time I also got older, moved, and went to college. It's worth considering what's easier/more likely/realistic to maintain
  - donw 2y ago
    The saying in weightlifting / bodybuilding circles is "you can't out-train a bad diet".
  - bart_spoon 2y ago
    I think that pittance of calories is only the surface benefit. Consistent activity keeps your metabolism much higher, meaning you burn more calories throughout the day even when you aren’t moving.
    - bravetraveler 2y ago
      Absolutely, very good to keep things burning. It's also good to not need to burn them. We can be remarkably efficient with the right conditioning. I eat once/day and would do less if not for literally boredom. I do next to nothing physically all day. I'm fine, I just don't need a lot of upkeep. I have all the metabolism I need! My health may be suffering for it, but I enjoy getting back a solid chunk of the day. Eating is such a time sink... now it's exercise too?! I know it's nuts, I have an unhealthy relationship with food lol. Even the social side, it's hard to explain but people get mad when you don't want to eat with them.
naveen99 2y ago
Average Japanese walk 2000-2500 steps more per day than Americans. India has walkable cities, but still they don’t walk, and they have lower longevity despite an even lower average bmi. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30933002/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30933002/ Americans and Indians just need to move more, weather it’s walking in a city or on a treadmill.
bart_spoon 2y ago
Yes, I lived in Japan for a few years and those are the exact same two conclusions I came to, with the only additional one being much less added sugar/high fructose corn syrup. Food is generally much less sweet there.
tekla 2y ago
You need to to add the shame of being fat. Its incredibly super effective when people call you fat to your face to get you to eat less and work out.
rayiner 2y ago
There’s also the fact that it’s acceptable in East Asia for friends and family to police each other’s weight.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
Mhhh apple contains fructose and my doctor suggested it to calm down big hunger without overeating (which it does), but i don't know if there are differences when it's pure vs inside an apple
- Taikonerd 2y ago
  When it's in an apple, it comes with fiber, which will slow down the absorption of the sugar. (The same is true of any whole fruit.)
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
    Is that it? Why wouldn't they put some sort of fiber too in mass produced food then?
    - danlugo92 2y ago
      Because most people don't think like you do.
orev 2y ago
> I've heard fructose inhibits the sense of satiation after eating. You’re pretty much on track until this. The idea that a specific subtype of sugar has slightly different effects on the body might technically be true, but it’s a small drop in the bucket when compared to the huge increase in calorie intake in general. When this idea started circulating, it seemed like a food company misinformation campaign.
Scottn1 2y ago
I recently wore a FreeStyle Libre for 10 days and one of the most positive things I learned from it was 10-15 minute walk after a meal significantly dropped glucose levels. It would reduce the spike in the range of 5-10% immediately. After I noticed that effect, a quick Google search presented many articles confirming it. I strive for 7k steps per day since Covid hit March 2020. Some days I may fall a little short if really tired or sore from golf or coaching little league the previous day, but most days I easily achieve it or go well over. I surely don't think 7k is an unreasonable goal for ANYONE - it just takes a little bit of mentality change and effort that just seem taken for granted in the USA from what I have observed last few years. Things like parking near the rear of parking lots when going to stores. I am amazed now at how often I see people wasting many minutes in their cars just to wait or "hunt" for closer spots when they could have just parked in back and be walking into the store already. Or parents at the park sitting and reading their phones for an hour while their kids play in playground. Teenagers riding electric scooters/ebikes instead of walking or regular bikes, etc. I was at my in-laws over Christmas and everyone sitting around eating one of the many appetizers to choose from and drinking alcohol, I decided I wanted to go for a quick mid-afternoon walk just for some fresh air. I remember sort of being giggled at when I asked if anyone wanted to go, with a few bewildered looks on some faces. Again it is a change of mentality that needs to happen if obesity is going to be addressed in the US anytime soon. Now, with these drugs available, I'm afraid it will be even harder to get to the root of the problem.
DontchaKnowit 2y ago
Also, in my experience (sample size of like 4. Korean friends) it seems like theres a bit more societal pressure to be fit.
rogerclark 2y ago
Japanese snacks and drinks also use high fructose corn syrup.

fifilura 2y ago

I am not in the USA, but 300 steps raised my eyebrows! Even 3000 steps seems low on a regular day. This is what you'd get from just moving around in the house?

Leftium 2y ago
I noticed 1,000 steps is about 10min of walking. (I used a Fitbit for 6+ months). So 300 steps is about 3 minutes of walking. If I sit at the computer most of the day and don't leave the house, I might get even fewer steps. 3,000 steps would be about 30min of walking. Perhaps I'm more sedentary than average. Sometimes the only steps I get are walking to lunch and back. But I got 15,000+ steps a few days ago because I went out dancing ^^ --- edit: also 300/3000 numbers were from my phone, so would exclude steps when my phone wasn't on me.
- brianwawok 2y ago
  100 steps a minute is a comical pace. 20-25 is a more reasonable rate.
  - fifilura 2y ago
    100 steps a minute sounds like normal walking speed. With 70 cm step length it means 4 km/h, which is slow walking. 20-25 steps/minute, with 70cm step length will take you to the toilet in one minute.
    - inglor_cz 2y ago
      My brisk pace would be about 120 steps a minute, with 80 cm step (I have long legs), that is about the speed I can sustain for longer time without any sweating.
goosedragons 2y ago
I guess it depends how big your house is but on the rare occasions I don't leave my apartment I don't even top 700 steps.
- fifilura 2y ago
  Yeah, i guess so. I have a 2 storey house and a lot of chores.

0xcde4c3db 2y ago

I don't know the proper sources, but I've read in several places that the Netherlands continues to have rising obesity despite making exactly those sorts of reforms over the past ~40 years.

Gud 2y ago
I've lived and worked a lot and in Netherlands and I wouldn't portray it as some exceptionally walkable country. In my opinion, the Netherlands is definitely a car country.
- banish-m4 2y ago
  Netherlands is a bicycle country. There are fucking bicycle highways and extensive safe, multimode traffic design patterns everywhere. I've ridden them from Amsterdam through the countryside to Belgium. And you haven't been to Los Angeles, Texas, or Florida if you call Netherlands a "car country".
  - Tijdreiziger 2y ago
    40% of rides in the Netherlands are taken by car, vs. only 28% by bicycle. [1] [1] https://www.kimnet.nl/publicaties/publicaties/2023/11/14/mobiliteitsbeeld-2023 https://www.kimnet.nl/publicaties/publicaties/2023/11/14/mob...
    - banish-m4 2y ago
      "Only" 28%? That's damn impressive. In the US, it's around 0.3%. In bicycle-friendly Oregon, it's only 1%. That's an order-of-magnitude to 2 more. https://www.bicycleretailer.com/studies-reports/2021/05/20/bike-commuting-almost-doubles-over-past-two-decades-according-report https://www.bicycleretailer.com/studies-reports/2021/05/20/b...
  - Gud 2y ago
    Yes, there is a lot of bicycling happening in the Netherlands. My point is, it’s not very walkable.

matthewdgreen 2y ago

Americans do more exercise than ever and have also reduced their sugar intake on average, but obesity continues to rise. Is it possible that food additives or something less obvious is having an effect? GLP-1 agonists are a good indicator that even minor chemical interventions can have a huge long-term effect on obesity that dominates diet and exercise, so why do we rule out the possibility of other substances doing the opposite?

KevinMS 2y ago
Or just find out how many total calories they are eating, which is probably high.
maxglute 2y ago
>Americans do more exercise than ever Are they really? Fitness socials exploded in the last 10 years, many more enthusiasts training harder/longer, but I haven't seen noticably more bodies at the gym.
- 0xcde4c3db 2y ago
  The number of gyms has skyrocketed in the past few decades, though. Back when the obesity epidemic really took off ca. 1980, "the gym" was a place inhabited primarily by bodybuilders and professional athletes. Regular folks were mostly doing calisthenics/aerobics, often at home following along with Jack LaLanne or Jane Fonda. Today, Planet Fitness is a ~5.5-billion-dollar company.
  - maxglute 2y ago
    Which is why I'm curious about time/scale of effect, and what exactly is meant with "Americans do more exercise than ever". One indicator is # of gym membership: ~30m->~70m in last 25 years, from 10% of population to 20%. Hard to say how much of that is due to gyms getting better at selling memberships because we know they oversubscribe. But per capita figures still suggest that vast plurarity of Americans, the average American, likely 1.5SD / 80%+ of population, probably don't have habit of regular exercise that would overcome effects of increasingly sedimentary life style. So should be ber surprising that obesity continues to increase.

khazhoux 2y ago

> Koreans tend to walk (exercise) more. Walk (partway) during commute, walk to lunch, walk to do errands, etc. In the US people just sit in their cars. People are always going on about walking, but I have a very hard time believing that the lack of low-intensity walking is a major contributing factor for the 250-pound bodies that are so common in the US (especially south and midwest). When you're overwhelming your body with fried food every day and coke at every meal, you ain't gonna keep up with those calories by getting in more steps.

bravetraveler 2y ago
Granted, this is hardly accurate/scientific - try out a solid hour walk on a treadmill. A lot of steps for a pittance of calories [based on whatever hand-wavy math it's doing, admittedly]. We're frustratingly efficient. I forget exactly, it was something dumb like half a candy bar. I've heard people say "you won't outrun your mouth", in this context... and others. It's true. I've managed to drop my body weight ~half, it happened by controlling what I ate; not how I exercised. When I stopped skateboarding due to an injury, I ballooned. I stopped eating like that over a decade later, I shrunk. In that time I also got older, moved, and went to college. It's worth considering what's easier/more likely/realistic to maintain
- donw 2y ago
  The saying in weightlifting / bodybuilding circles is "you can't out-train a bad diet".
- bart_spoon 2y ago
  I think that pittance of calories is only the surface benefit. Consistent activity keeps your metabolism much higher, meaning you burn more calories throughout the day even when you aren’t moving.
  - bravetraveler 2y ago
    Absolutely, very good to keep things burning. It's also good to not need to burn them. We can be remarkably efficient with the right conditioning. I eat once/day and would do less if not for literally boredom. I do next to nothing physically all day. I'm fine, I just don't need a lot of upkeep. I have all the metabolism I need! My health may be suffering for it, but I enjoy getting back a solid chunk of the day. Eating is such a time sink... now it's exercise too?! I know it's nuts, I have an unhealthy relationship with food lol. Even the social side, it's hard to explain but people get mad when you don't want to eat with them.

naveen99 2y ago

Average Japanese walk 2000-2500 steps more per day than Americans. India has walkable cities, but still they don’t walk, and they have lower longevity despite an even lower average bmi. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30933002/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30933002/ Americans and Indians just need to move more, weather it’s walking in a city or on a treadmill.

bart_spoon 2y ago

Yes, I lived in Japan for a few years and those are the exact same two conclusions I came to, with the only additional one being much less added sugar/high fructose corn syrup. Food is generally much less sweet there.

tekla 2y ago

You need to to add the shame of being fat. Its incredibly super effective when people call you fat to your face to get you to eat less and work out.

rayiner 2y ago

There’s also the fact that it’s acceptable in East Asia for friends and family to police each other’s weight.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago

Mhhh apple contains fructose and my doctor suggested it to calm down big hunger without overeating (which it does), but i don't know if there are differences when it's pure vs inside an apple

Taikonerd 2y ago
When it's in an apple, it comes with fiber, which will slow down the absorption of the sugar. (The same is true of any whole fruit.)
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
  Is that it? Why wouldn't they put some sort of fiber too in mass produced food then?
  - danlugo92 2y ago
    Because most people don't think like you do.

orev 2y ago

> I've heard fructose inhibits the sense of satiation after eating. You’re pretty much on track until this. The idea that a specific subtype of sugar has slightly different effects on the body might technically be true, but it’s a small drop in the bucket when compared to the huge increase in calorie intake in general. When this idea started circulating, it seemed like a food company misinformation campaign.

Scottn1 2y ago

I recently wore a FreeStyle Libre for 10 days and one of the most positive things I learned from it was 10-15 minute walk after a meal significantly dropped glucose levels. It would reduce the spike in the range of 5-10% immediately. After I noticed that effect, a quick Google search presented many articles confirming it. I strive for 7k steps per day since Covid hit March 2020. Some days I may fall a little short if really tired or sore from golf or coaching little league the previous day, but most days I easily achieve it or go well over. I surely don't think 7k is an unreasonable goal for ANYONE - it just takes a little bit of mentality change and effort that just seem taken for granted in the USA from what I have observed last few years. Things like parking near the rear of parking lots when going to stores. I am amazed now at how often I see people wasting many minutes in their cars just to wait or "hunt" for closer spots when they could have just parked in back and be walking into the store already. Or parents at the park sitting and reading their phones for an hour while their kids play in playground. Teenagers riding electric scooters/ebikes instead of walking or regular bikes, etc. I was at my in-laws over Christmas and everyone sitting around eating one of the many appetizers to choose from and drinking alcohol, I decided I wanted to go for a quick mid-afternoon walk just for some fresh air. I remember sort of being giggled at when I asked if anyone wanted to go, with a few bewildered looks on some faces. Again it is a change of mentality that needs to happen if obesity is going to be addressed in the US anytime soon. Now, with these drugs available, I'm afraid it will be even harder to get to the root of the problem.

DontchaKnowit 2y ago

Also, in my experience (sample size of like 4. Korean friends) it seems like theres a bit more societal pressure to be fit.

rogerclark 2y ago

Japanese snacks and drinks also use high fructose corn syrup.