4 ms·

How is this enforceable?

Madmallard 2y ago
yeah doesn't make any sense lol if you remove comments and shift it to your own style then it's not going to be distinguishable except for sufficiently complex code where your own codebase's unique idioms may show through and the AI doesn't use them
- Almondsetat 2y ago
  Sufficiently complex code is the one most susceptible to coming from a proprietary solution
  - speedgoose 2y ago
    But are coding large language models in the wild trained on proprietary code bases?
    - Almondsetat 2y ago
      If you don't know, it's a yes
      - speedgoose 2y ago
        I don’t believe in unicorns, but maybe they exist.
    - simion314 2y ago
      >But are coding large language models in the wild trained on proprietary code bases? There are source availleble projects on GitHub but BSD license is not compatible with GPL and for sure there is ton of GPL code in the LLMs. The only solution I can think of is too train LLMs on BSD compatible code to be used on BSD projects, GPL compatible code to be used on GPL projects etc. See below link were copilot was caught stealing code and prove that it is memorizing and reproducing rather then learning concepts and then generating original code. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27710287 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27710287
- Smaug123 2y ago
  Come now, you can have guidelines that aren't enforceable but which you expect people to adhere to. After all, you asked them to adhere to them, and they're (hopefully) not arseholes.
  - mlinhares 2y ago
    I doubt the people that think it’s fine to not respect NetBSD ethos are even capable of contributing anything to it so I’d say the project is fine.
squarefoot 2y ago
Seems impossible to me, although it seems more of some sort of protection in case of legal problems should someone add AI-generated code that turns out to contain copyrighted code by someone else. They must show they're doing something against that, even if that something turns out to be probably useless.
stusmall 2y ago
In the same way a lot of the other rules on that list are. How are they going to know you are familiar with the code you are committing? How are they going to know it is tested? Sometimes rules are established to set up a common community base line. You are trusted to follow them in good faith. If over time, through code review, questioning or testing, it shows you aren't following the rules then you can't claim you didn't know it wasn't okay.
nicklecompte 2y ago
The headline of this HN post is misleading, it isn't really a "ban" as such and doesn't have to be "enforceable." These are guidelines whose target audience is good-faith developers who want to make positive contributions to NetBSD. The comments saying "heh, those stoopid NetBSD maintainers would never know if I slipped a bit of AI into their codebase" are missing the point. The point of the guideline is to say that people who use Copilot/etc for NetBSD development are dumb assholes, so don't be a dumb asshole.
ekianjo 2y ago
its not about enforceability its simply about covering their ass
- johnisgood 2y ago
  This is what people do not seem to understand. It is all about legalities; copyright, licensing issues, whatever.
throw78311 2y ago
This stance is CYA. There's no way to enforce it but by stating explicitly like this, they save themselves possible legal pain.

yeah doesn't make any sense lol if you remove comments and shift it to your own style then it's not going to be distinguishable except for sufficiently complex code where your own codebase's unique idioms may show through and the AI doesn't use them

Almondsetat 2y ago
Sufficiently complex code is the one most susceptible to coming from a proprietary solution
- speedgoose 2y ago
  But are coding large language models in the wild trained on proprietary code bases?
  - Almondsetat 2y ago
    If you don't know, it's a yes
    - speedgoose 2y ago
      I don’t believe in unicorns, but maybe they exist.
  - simion314 2y ago
    >But are coding large language models in the wild trained on proprietary code bases? There are source availleble projects on GitHub but BSD license is not compatible with GPL and for sure there is ton of GPL code in the LLMs. The only solution I can think of is too train LLMs on BSD compatible code to be used on BSD projects, GPL compatible code to be used on GPL projects etc. See below link were copilot was caught stealing code and prove that it is memorizing and reproducing rather then learning concepts and then generating original code. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27710287 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27710287
Smaug123 2y ago
Come now, you can have guidelines that aren't enforceable but which you expect people to adhere to. After all, you asked them to adhere to them, and they're (hopefully) not arseholes.
- mlinhares 2y ago
  I doubt the people that think it’s fine to not respect NetBSD ethos are even capable of contributing anything to it so I’d say the project is fine.

squarefoot 2y ago

Seems impossible to me, although it seems more of some sort of protection in case of legal problems should someone add AI-generated code that turns out to contain copyrighted code by someone else. They must show they're doing something against that, even if that something turns out to be probably useless.

stusmall 2y ago

In the same way a lot of the other rules on that list are. How are they going to know you are familiar with the code you are committing? How are they going to know it is tested? Sometimes rules are established to set up a common community base line. You are trusted to follow them in good faith. If over time, through code review, questioning or testing, it shows you aren't following the rules then you can't claim you didn't know it wasn't okay.

nicklecompte 2y ago

The headline of this HN post is misleading, it isn't really a "ban" as such and doesn't have to be "enforceable." These are guidelines whose target audience is good-faith developers who want to make positive contributions to NetBSD. The comments saying "heh, those stoopid NetBSD maintainers would never know if I slipped a bit of AI into their codebase" are missing the point. The point of the guideline is to say that people who use Copilot/etc for NetBSD development are dumb assholes, so don't be a dumb asshole.

ekianjo 2y ago

its not about enforceability its simply about covering their ass

johnisgood 2y ago
This is what people do not seem to understand. It is all about legalities; copyright, licensing issues, whatever.

throw78311 2y ago

This stance is CYA. There's no way to enforce it but by stating explicitly like this, they save themselves possible legal pain.