4 ms·

"I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and willingly accepts the penalty by staying in jail to arouse the conscience

"I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and willingly accepts the penalty by staying in jail to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the very highest respect for the law." - Martin Luther King, Jr. (P.S. Good luck, David. The international community stands with you.)

dostick 2y ago
Sadly that’s from the different times, when morality was worth something. Saying such things would be considered childishly naive in modern world. And we know that laws themselves are outdated, especially as demonstrated genre, about whistleblowers.
- soulofmischief 2y ago
  I would die for my principles, so it stands to reason that I would go to prison for them. I have this quote painted on one of my favorite possessions. I live by the quote, I'd die by it. I don't consider that childishly naive. Naive would be thinking that taking a more Malcom X approach won't lead to death and prison as well.
  - bcrosby95 2y ago
    Most people won't even be mildly inconvenienced for their principles. Such as using less optimal solutions that align more with their beliefs or taking a lower paying job that won't compromise their morals.
    - soulofmischief 2y ago
      And those people will not be walking alongside me, standing up for the freedom of their fellow countrymen. That's fine. I'd rather focus on collectivizing with those who are principled.
      - nuancebydefault 2y ago
        Thing is, principles differ from wisdom. The latter implies that changing your mind while growing is possible.
        soulofmischief 2y ago
        Are you implying that principles stand in opposition to growth or wisdom? That a wise man cannot be principled?
        nuancebydefault 2y ago
        In the narrow sense of principle, indeed principles can stand in the way of wisdom. A more wide definition of principle could be that you have them, but that they can change out of, for example, wisdom. Principles are 'wrong' just like scientific models are wrong. Over time, scientific models get replaced by other models that are less wrong. What I want to say actually : there is no Right or Meaning just like there is no Truth. There's only (wise) man's search for it.
        soulofmischief 2y ago
        It may be the wise man's search, but it's possibly a fool's errand as well :)
    - mrmanner 2y ago
      I believe you are right to some extent, but also overestimating how strong and important the specific principles you're observing are to most people. Some of us have stronger principles, yes. But more of us have _different_ principles.
- MaxBarraclough 2y ago
  > when morality was worth something There has never been a time when everyone behaved morally, and it's unhelpful to view the past in this way. MLK himself was murdered.
- yareal 2y ago
  Your mental model of the past is idealistic, morality in the past was lynchings, cop raids against gay people, racism against everyone, segregation, sexism, and imperial power.
Intermernet 2y ago
You should see the hit pieces happening in the Australian press right now. They're claiming he's not a whistle blower, but apparently an idealogue. They can do this because, despite the fact that the war-crimes he exposed were real, the actual details of said crimes are still hidden behind a "national security" veil.
- medo-bear 2y ago
  What do you expect of a country that has abandoned Julian Assange. Australia is a despicable place when it comes to Human Rights, personal freedom, and privacy
  - 8372049 2y ago
    > and privacy What could possibly go wrong with demanding "encryption backdoors" in everything...
  - mrkeen 2y ago
    Fwiw: > ‘Enough is enough’: Australian PM denounces US, UK legal pursuit of Assange > Anthony Albanese takes stand against attempts to extradite Australian to US ahead of court ruling next week. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/15/enough-is-enough-australian-pm-denounces-us-uk-legal-pursuit-of-assange https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/15/enough-is-enough-au...
    - medo-bear 2y ago
      Julian Assange deserves credit for exposing the hypocrisy of the US propaganda about freedom and human rights. Australians should be proud of him as he actually embodies much of the advertised Aussie battler spirit
- tdeck 2y ago
  I'd argue that most high-stakes whistle blowers are idealogues. That's why they're willing to take such a great personal risk.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
wazoox 2y ago
The international community is a common term for the US and their lackeys (EU, Japan and a couple other countries), and they absolutely support Australia. The situation is similar in many matters : see how almost all of the international community governments support staunchly the current massacre in Gaza, though the people of all countries are protesting daily. In the UK, both Sunak and Starmer support Netanyahu's crimes unequivocally, while hundreds of thousands protest in the streets. I've lost any hope about our "democracies". We need a complete upheaval.
- soulofmischief 2y ago
  > The international community is a common term for the US and their lackeys (EU, Japan and a couple other countries), and they absolutely support Australia. You know that words can mean different things, depending on context. You also know it's unproductive to disregard clear contextualization in favor of starting a strawman argument. We both absolutely agree however that the only path forward involves a complete rewrite from scratch. The American experiment has concluded, it's time to collect the data, form conclusions, create and test a new hypothesis.

dostick 2y ago

Sadly that’s from the different times, when morality was worth something. Saying such things would be considered childishly naive in modern world. And we know that laws themselves are outdated, especially as demonstrated genre, about whistleblowers.

soulofmischief 2y ago
I would die for my principles, so it stands to reason that I would go to prison for them. I have this quote painted on one of my favorite possessions. I live by the quote, I'd die by it. I don't consider that childishly naive. Naive would be thinking that taking a more Malcom X approach won't lead to death and prison as well.
- bcrosby95 2y ago
  Most people won't even be mildly inconvenienced for their principles. Such as using less optimal solutions that align more with their beliefs or taking a lower paying job that won't compromise their morals.
  - soulofmischief 2y ago
    And those people will not be walking alongside me, standing up for the freedom of their fellow countrymen. That's fine. I'd rather focus on collectivizing with those who are principled.
    - nuancebydefault 2y ago
      Thing is, principles differ from wisdom. The latter implies that changing your mind while growing is possible.
      - soulofmischief 2y ago
        Are you implying that principles stand in opposition to growth or wisdom? That a wise man cannot be principled?
        nuancebydefault 2y ago
        In the narrow sense of principle, indeed principles can stand in the way of wisdom. A more wide definition of principle could be that you have them, but that they can change out of, for example, wisdom. Principles are 'wrong' just like scientific models are wrong. Over time, scientific models get replaced by other models that are less wrong. What I want to say actually : there is no Right or Meaning just like there is no Truth. There's only (wise) man's search for it.
        soulofmischief 2y ago
        It may be the wise man's search, but it's possibly a fool's errand as well :)
  - mrmanner 2y ago
    I believe you are right to some extent, but also overestimating how strong and important the specific principles you're observing are to most people. Some of us have stronger principles, yes. But more of us have _different_ principles.
MaxBarraclough 2y ago
> when morality was worth something There has never been a time when everyone behaved morally, and it's unhelpful to view the past in this way. MLK himself was murdered.
yareal 2y ago
Your mental model of the past is idealistic, morality in the past was lynchings, cop raids against gay people, racism against everyone, segregation, sexism, and imperial power.

Intermernet 2y ago

You should see the hit pieces happening in the Australian press right now. They're claiming he's not a whistle blower, but apparently an idealogue. They can do this because, despite the fact that the war-crimes he exposed were real, the actual details of said crimes are still hidden behind a "national security" veil.

medo-bear 2y ago
What do you expect of a country that has abandoned Julian Assange. Australia is a despicable place when it comes to Human Rights, personal freedom, and privacy
- 8372049 2y ago
  > and privacy What could possibly go wrong with demanding "encryption backdoors" in everything...
- mrkeen 2y ago
  Fwiw: > ‘Enough is enough’: Australian PM denounces US, UK legal pursuit of Assange > Anthony Albanese takes stand against attempts to extradite Australian to US ahead of court ruling next week. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/15/enough-is-enough-australian-pm-denounces-us-uk-legal-pursuit-of-assange https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/15/enough-is-enough-au...
  - medo-bear 2y ago
    Julian Assange deserves credit for exposing the hypocrisy of the US propaganda about freedom and human rights. Australians should be proud of him as he actually embodies much of the advertised Aussie battler spirit
tdeck 2y ago
I'd argue that most high-stakes whistle blowers are idealogues. That's why they're willing to take such a great personal risk.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

wazoox 2y ago

The international community is a common term for the US and their lackeys (EU, Japan and a couple other countries), and they absolutely support Australia. The situation is similar in many matters : see how almost all of the international community governments support staunchly the current massacre in Gaza, though the people of all countries are protesting daily. In the UK, both Sunak and Starmer support Netanyahu's crimes unequivocally, while hundreds of thousands protest in the streets. I've lost any hope about our "democracies". We need a complete upheaval.

soulofmischief 2y ago
> The international community is a common term for the US and their lackeys (EU, Japan and a couple other countries), and they absolutely support Australia. You know that words can mean different things, depending on context. You also know it's unproductive to disregard clear contextualization in favor of starting a strawman argument. We both absolutely agree however that the only path forward involves a complete rewrite from scratch. The American experiment has concluded, it's time to collect the data, form conclusions, create and test a new hypothesis.