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From the point of actually trying to keep something online, it's basically constantly having to fight against code rot. You don't update your server or databas

From the point of actually trying to keep something online, it's basically constantly having to fight against code rot. You don't update your server or database or runtime/framework/library? You'll get hacked and will drown in CVEs. You do try to do these updates? Have fun rewriting bits of your code, because the old version of a framework/library is no longer supported and there are breaking changes, which mean needing a partial rewrite. Your best bet around that might be one of the relatively stable databases like SQLite, a micro-framework on the back end for a RESTful API, a simple solution for auth like basicauth/mTLS/... at the web server level in front of your API and then something without a toolchain on the front end, like jQuery. I mean this unironically, unless you want to maintain very few sites, then you probably have a bit more time on your hands. Feels to me like the only content that can have any sort of longevity without constant investment of time is static sites - where updating your web server or moving to a different one is trivial and there are no write operations involved in most of the processes (maybe setup logrotate or just delete the logs occasionally).

jonnycomputer 2y ago
One of the reasons I moved my personal site to static. Don't have to think about it anymore.
- TaylorAlexander 2y ago
  Yah I’m thinking about the Space Jam website. HTML doesn’t seem to rot like some hot new JS library does.
  - bilalq 2y ago
    It's an issue of servers, not JS. A BackboneJS app written in CoffeeScript back in 2010 would still run just fine today if it was hosted on S3/CloudFront. Replace the framework/language/year with anything, and it'd still hold true. But if the page needed to fetch data from an unmaintained API server that ran out of disk space, lost its DB network connection, got rebooted by a VPS provider, or any other issue, that site will probably never work again.
    - jonnycomputer 2y ago
      Yeah, its mostly a matter of database/server exploits. My personal wordpress site got white-hacked; left a friendly note telling me to update. I switched to static instead.
  - Kye 2y ago
    HTML benefits from the fact that browsers have always bent over backwards to make sense of whatever freak noise they're fed. Try the same with your average compiler/interpreter and it'll send you right back to your desk with a list of admonishments. Trouble is, those admonishments change, and require updates. The HTML inside a PHP program from 2005 probably works, but the PHP probably doesn't.
williamcotton 2y ago
The unacknowledged costs of using free third-party software eventually proves the law of there being no free lunches!
- falcor84 2y ago
  What does it have to do with that software being free? I haven't found proprietary software to be more reliable or easier to maintain integration with.
  - williamcotton 2y ago
    Have fun rewriting bits of your code, because the old version of a framework/library is no longer supported and there are breaking changes, which mean needing a partial rewrite. You don't get to choose if a third-party decides to rewrite an API interface, deprecate an entire library, etc. You know that proprietary code has a cost because you pay for it. "Free" software is added to projects without much thought of what happens down the road.
ghaff 2y ago
Some sites that I (and some coworkers) wrote for were basically frozen fairly recently. I told everyone they should make their own copies of anything they care about because I’d put money on a few years from now the sites needing some maintenance work to keep them secure etc. At that point I’m pretty sure that the person responsible wouldn’t spend the resources at to patch things up and will just shut off the sites.
rchaud 2y ago
I've been making websites for > 10 years, none of them have been hacked. I don't do Wordpress anymore, so that may have something to do with it. I drag and drop a folder of PHP files underpinning a folder of Markdown file content, and voila: a website. Works online and offline (local server).
jacooper 2y ago
Depending on the website, you can archive it as a static site and just host it for free on something like cloudflare pages.

jonnycomputer 2y ago

One of the reasons I moved my personal site to static. Don't have to think about it anymore.

TaylorAlexander 2y ago
Yah I’m thinking about the Space Jam website. HTML doesn’t seem to rot like some hot new JS library does.
- bilalq 2y ago
  It's an issue of servers, not JS. A BackboneJS app written in CoffeeScript back in 2010 would still run just fine today if it was hosted on S3/CloudFront. Replace the framework/language/year with anything, and it'd still hold true. But if the page needed to fetch data from an unmaintained API server that ran out of disk space, lost its DB network connection, got rebooted by a VPS provider, or any other issue, that site will probably never work again.
  - jonnycomputer 2y ago
    Yeah, its mostly a matter of database/server exploits. My personal wordpress site got white-hacked; left a friendly note telling me to update. I switched to static instead.
- Kye 2y ago
  HTML benefits from the fact that browsers have always bent over backwards to make sense of whatever freak noise they're fed. Try the same with your average compiler/interpreter and it'll send you right back to your desk with a list of admonishments. Trouble is, those admonishments change, and require updates. The HTML inside a PHP program from 2005 probably works, but the PHP probably doesn't.

williamcotton 2y ago

The unacknowledged costs of using free third-party software eventually proves the law of there being no free lunches!

falcor84 2y ago
What does it have to do with that software being free? I haven't found proprietary software to be more reliable or easier to maintain integration with.
- williamcotton 2y ago
  Have fun rewriting bits of your code, because the old version of a framework/library is no longer supported and there are breaking changes, which mean needing a partial rewrite. You don't get to choose if a third-party decides to rewrite an API interface, deprecate an entire library, etc. You know that proprietary code has a cost because you pay for it. "Free" software is added to projects without much thought of what happens down the road.

ghaff 2y ago

Some sites that I (and some coworkers) wrote for were basically frozen fairly recently. I told everyone they should make their own copies of anything they care about because I’d put money on a few years from now the sites needing some maintenance work to keep them secure etc. At that point I’m pretty sure that the person responsible wouldn’t spend the resources at to patch things up and will just shut off the sites.

rchaud 2y ago

I've been making websites for > 10 years, none of them have been hacked. I don't do Wordpress anymore, so that may have something to do with it. I drag and drop a folder of PHP files underpinning a folder of Markdown file content, and voila: a website. Works online and offline (local server).

jacooper 2y ago

Depending on the website, you can archive it as a static site and just host it for free on something like cloudflare pages.