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His example applies, as does yours I think I agree about some degrees; computer science is something you will need and use as a founder or Cto but does anyone r

by redorb 18y ago

His example applies, as does yours I think I agree about some degrees; computer science is something you will need and use as a founder or Cto but does anyone really need a "business managment" degree when you get that job; you'll get more than enough on job training

wheels 18y ago
Most web startups don't do much with computer science, and a computer science degree generally doesn't prepare you to build a web startup. It always smacks of an inferiority complex when a group a people who largely thus-far haven't actually been successful in business snipe at people who studied business and suggest that all of their skills are meaningless.
- indiejade 18y ago
  Excellent points. This is perhaps why so many solopreneurs can't make it: startups need the symbiotic, complementary talents of code people and business people to build products from ideas that have time-relevance -- as in "this is what is needed NOW". Otherwise, a person wanting to build startup is forced to be a fast learner. Even though I had a business degree, I knew I wanted to work in tech. I had an MBA, but kept teaching (was already in the process of doing so) myself to code; and now, I consider myself both a code person and a business person with a successful (I do consider zentu.net successful) startup. It was just a lot harder and it took a lot longer to build with one person. Also, even though I was self-taught, I seem to know a lot more and have a bit more, um, demonstrated competence, than some CS people I've met. I sometimes get the idea that high-level theory in CS is probably a lot like the high-level (economic) theory in business: it's great and fun to talk about and muse upon, but at the end of the day, it doesn't always help you accomplish anything specific.
  - rantfoil 18y ago
    Keep in mind that a team of hybrid code/business people would destroy a team of pure coders and pure business people any day. It's fine to specialize, but a startup requires all of those skills collected in as few people as possible so that decisions can be made quickly and there's no miscommunication because less communication is necessary.
    - fallentimes 18y ago
      We agree.
    - indiejade 18y ago
      So why do you think that I am having such a hard finding gainful employment myself as a hybrid business/code person? BTW, when I said I consider zentu.net to be "successful," I just meant that it works, has decent Alexa rank, I get lots of thank you emails, it produces slightly more income than cost of running, etc (we're talking strict hosting costs here, assuming I've been working for "free" for myself on it). It's not like I actually attempted to get actual VC or anything like that.
      - notauser 18y ago
        Because in a larger team (anywhere that is hiring, as opposed to two people in a garage) comparative advantage starts to kick in. Even if there are only two of us, and I am slight better at A while you are slightly better at B, the most efficient distribution of labour is that I do A and you do B, despite the fact that we can both do either. This gets more true the larger the team, because as the team (and the work) grows it is more likely that you have enough work to keep a specialist busy. A startup needs perhaps 1.5 coders and 0.5 business people, so two hybrids is more efficient than the specialist minimum of 2 coders and a business guy. But a larger business might need 5 coders and 2 business guys, so you are better off with 5 pure coders and 2 pure business guys because they will be more experienced in their specialty (and therefore probably better) than 7 hybrid types.
        rantfoil 18y ago
        This is a great explanation of why it's hard to find a job as a hybrid jack of all trades. Founders/owners don't really want hybrids because they're harder to manage, and often have a harder time proving to the world that they're better than the pure hacker or the pure business guy. So find smaller, earlier-stage startups and you'll find people who are clamoring for what you offer.
      - trevelyan 18y ago
zupatol 18y ago
I had a lot of 'business management' lessons when I studied economics. Most of them were so full of emptiness that I came to think that most of a business degree is part of faking it, a kind of symbolic ritual. (There were however a minority of useful things like accounting, controlling, tax laws). If I remember well, I also read in a book about german economic history that business schools were created mainly to allow business people to boast degrees just like medical doctors and engineers.

by redorb 18y ago

wheels 18y ago

Most web startups don't do much with computer science, and a computer science degree generally doesn't prepare you to build a web startup. It always smacks of an inferiority complex when a group a people who largely thus-far haven't actually been successful in business snipe at people who studied business and suggest that all of their skills are meaningless.

indiejade 18y ago
Excellent points. This is perhaps why so many solopreneurs can't make it: startups need the symbiotic, complementary talents of code people and business people to build products from ideas that have time-relevance -- as in "this is what is needed NOW". Otherwise, a person wanting to build startup is forced to be a fast learner. Even though I had a business degree, I knew I wanted to work in tech. I had an MBA, but kept teaching (was already in the process of doing so) myself to code; and now, I consider myself both a code person and a business person with a successful (I do consider zentu.net successful) startup. It was just a lot harder and it took a lot longer to build with one person. Also, even though I was self-taught, I seem to know a lot more and have a bit more, um, demonstrated competence, than some CS people I've met. I sometimes get the idea that high-level theory in CS is probably a lot like the high-level (economic) theory in business: it's great and fun to talk about and muse upon, but at the end of the day, it doesn't always help you accomplish anything specific.
- rantfoil 18y ago
  Keep in mind that a team of hybrid code/business people would destroy a team of pure coders and pure business people any day. It's fine to specialize, but a startup requires all of those skills collected in as few people as possible so that decisions can be made quickly and there's no miscommunication because less communication is necessary.
  - fallentimes 18y ago
    We agree.
  - indiejade 18y ago
    So why do you think that I am having such a hard finding gainful employment myself as a hybrid business/code person? BTW, when I said I consider zentu.net to be "successful," I just meant that it works, has decent Alexa rank, I get lots of thank you emails, it produces slightly more income than cost of running, etc (we're talking strict hosting costs here, assuming I've been working for "free" for myself on it). It's not like I actually attempted to get actual VC or anything like that.
    - notauser 18y ago
      Because in a larger team (anywhere that is hiring, as opposed to two people in a garage) comparative advantage starts to kick in. Even if there are only two of us, and I am slight better at A while you are slightly better at B, the most efficient distribution of labour is that I do A and you do B, despite the fact that we can both do either. This gets more true the larger the team, because as the team (and the work) grows it is more likely that you have enough work to keep a specialist busy. A startup needs perhaps 1.5 coders and 0.5 business people, so two hybrids is more efficient than the specialist minimum of 2 coders and a business guy. But a larger business might need 5 coders and 2 business guys, so you are better off with 5 pure coders and 2 pure business guys because they will be more experienced in their specialty (and therefore probably better) than 7 hybrid types.
      - rantfoil 18y ago
        This is a great explanation of why it's hard to find a job as a hybrid jack of all trades. Founders/owners don't really want hybrids because they're harder to manage, and often have a harder time proving to the world that they're better than the pure hacker or the pure business guy. So find smaller, earlier-stage startups and you'll find people who are clamoring for what you offer.
    - trevelyan 18y ago

zupatol 18y ago

I had a lot of 'business management' lessons when I studied economics. Most of them were so full of emptiness that I came to think that most of a business degree is part of faking it, a kind of symbolic ritual. (There were however a minority of useful things like accounting, controlling, tax laws). If I remember well, I also read in a book about german economic history that business schools were created mainly to allow business people to boast degrees just like medical doctors and engineers.