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It genuinely baffles me that we haven't seen more aggressive antitrust action taken against Microsoft with Windows 11. Trying to lock down what people can insta

by CM30 2y ago

It genuinely baffles me that we haven't seen more aggressive antitrust action taken against Microsoft with Windows 11. Trying to lock down what people can install, attempting to force users into using Microsoft accounts with dark patterns, tying Edge and Bing into everything, hijacking browsers and falsely saying things like this... This feels exactly like the Microsoft of the IE6 era, if not worse. The US and EU governments really need to come down hard on this, just like the latter did in the IE6 era.

labrador 2y ago
It seems like I've heard a lot of the same complaints about Apple. I don't know, I don't use Apple. I'm happy with Windows 11, probably because I know how to work around the b.s.
- LordKeren 2y ago
  I’ve used MacOS and Windows both every day for more than a decade. MacOS does have some “is this a bug or a dark pattern” situations, but it is in no way comparable to how much Microsoft pushes all this. It is more than a magnitude of difference between the two OSs
  - labrador 2y ago
    I was thinking of iOS and iPhone and the walled garden. I haven't heard any similar complaints about the Mac so thanks for the correction.
    - LordKeren 2y ago
      “Complaint” may be underselling the Apple’s situation with iOS and iPadOS. They are getting forced in to change by the EU already and they are actively being sued by the US Department of Justice. It will be interesting to see if Microsoft comes under fire for windows 11
    - dole 2y ago
      Buy a new iPhone, get inundated by modal ads to subscribe to the iOS ecosystem like iCloud storage and Apple Music. I like reading news from various sources, but Apple News may as well be broken without a News+ subscription, teasing with the headline and first few lines where I might actually be able to read the article in full from the Google News app unless I've hit my monthly paywall quota. Apple may not be as blatant as MS, but enshittification by shareholder eventually poops on us all.
scarface_74 2y ago
Yes, because the alternatives are Chrome with 62.8% market share. Edge is not a monopoly by any reasonable definition
- LordKeren 2y ago
  The EU is very actively pursuing large tech companies over nearly this exact thing already. The EU commission could very easily decide that Microsoft is a gatekeeper (DMA) and cannot engage in this kind of behavior anymore.
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  Of course Edge doesn't have a monopoly; MS is using their monopoly on desktop operating systems to unfairly push Edge and Bing and other MS products.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    And how is this different than Google using its monopoly in browsers to push its other properties? Are we going after one “monopoly” to help another one?
    - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
      Actually I'd argue that Google started by abusing its search monopoly. But yes, if I had my way both Google and Microsoft would get ripped apart in court. Neither excuses the other.
    - MattPalmer1086 2y ago
      The principle should remain the same whoever is abusing a monopoly position. I want free and fair markets with competition to drive innovation and cost reductions. Using dominance in one market to undercut or destroy competitors in another is the issue. Having a monopoly is not.
      - glimshe 2y ago
robbiep 2y ago
I almost returned (I would have returned it if they didn’t live 900km from the nearest store) the surface I bought them for their accounting. The build quality is great but I was immediately repulsed by a number of things: - forcing me to sign in with a Microsoft account - setting ‘new’ outlook as the default - ‘new’ outlook wanting to divert all Google workspaces emails (that I have set up for them) through onto outlook servers (….!!!!!) - a particularly weird one I wasn’t sure I’d be able to overcome when I accidentally set my keyboard to GB-en instead of US-En and couldn’t press enter (surely the walkthrough knows what sort of keyboard it’s got and won’t let you make a stupid choice before you’re even in on the desktop right? Wrong!!!) I have to use windows machines at one of my workplaces (…a hospital) - it’s really jarring to see ads in the start menu
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >forcing me to sign in with a Microsoft account - Pro tip I discovered by accident: If you type in any gibberish account name/email that doesn't exist, it will throw an error and move on with the setup without needing an account. No need to fuck with cmd line registry incantations or rufus. >I have to use windows machines at one of my workplaces (…a hospital) - it’s really jarring to see ads in the start menu Why didn't you remove them? I always do that.
  - robbiep 2y ago
    Good pro tip, will check that out. Was unsure you could remove them! Honestly it feels so weird using Microsoft machines now; I’m very unused to feeling so transparently that I am the product (although Samsung tv s having ads seems pretty bloody rude as well)
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      >Was unsure you could remove them! Why wouldn't you be able to remove them ? Nobody would have used this if ads were not removable. Just right click -> remove.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
joecot 2y ago
When Silicon Valley, particularly Apple, successfully got an antitrust case brought against Microsoft, it was because Apple and crew had more lobbyists in DC. Way more. It's not something that Microsoft had really worried about, so they were caught flat footed. After that case, Microsoft learned the lesson, and sent quite a few lobbyists. There will be no action in the US against Microsoft for the same reason there's been no action in the US against Apple. There will be the occasional case against any company in Silicon Valley when they're too overt about it, but they'll get a slap on the wrist and sent on their way to continue doing the same antitrust behavior. No one will ever reasonably suggest splitting them up again.

by CM30 2y ago

labrador 2y ago

It seems like I've heard a lot of the same complaints about Apple. I don't know, I don't use Apple. I'm happy with Windows 11, probably because I know how to work around the b.s.

LordKeren 2y ago
I’ve used MacOS and Windows both every day for more than a decade. MacOS does have some “is this a bug or a dark pattern” situations, but it is in no way comparable to how much Microsoft pushes all this. It is more than a magnitude of difference between the two OSs
- labrador 2y ago
  I was thinking of iOS and iPhone and the walled garden. I haven't heard any similar complaints about the Mac so thanks for the correction.
  - LordKeren 2y ago
    “Complaint” may be underselling the Apple’s situation with iOS and iPadOS. They are getting forced in to change by the EU already and they are actively being sued by the US Department of Justice. It will be interesting to see if Microsoft comes under fire for windows 11
  - dole 2y ago
    Buy a new iPhone, get inundated by modal ads to subscribe to the iOS ecosystem like iCloud storage and Apple Music. I like reading news from various sources, but Apple News may as well be broken without a News+ subscription, teasing with the headline and first few lines where I might actually be able to read the article in full from the Google News app unless I've hit my monthly paywall quota. Apple may not be as blatant as MS, but enshittification by shareholder eventually poops on us all.

scarface_74 2y ago

Yes, because the alternatives are Chrome with 62.8% market share. Edge is not a monopoly by any reasonable definition

LordKeren 2y ago
The EU is very actively pursuing large tech companies over nearly this exact thing already. The EU commission could very easily decide that Microsoft is a gatekeeper (DMA) and cannot engage in this kind of behavior anymore.
yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
Of course Edge doesn't have a monopoly; MS is using their monopoly on desktop operating systems to unfairly push Edge and Bing and other MS products.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  And how is this different than Google using its monopoly in browsers to push its other properties? Are we going after one “monopoly” to help another one?
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    Actually I'd argue that Google started by abusing its search monopoly. But yes, if I had my way both Google and Microsoft would get ripped apart in court. Neither excuses the other.
  - MattPalmer1086 2y ago
    The principle should remain the same whoever is abusing a monopoly position. I want free and fair markets with competition to drive innovation and cost reductions. Using dominance in one market to undercut or destroy competitors in another is the issue. Having a monopoly is not.
    - glimshe 2y ago

robbiep 2y ago

I almost returned (I would have returned it if they didn’t live 900km from the nearest store) the surface I bought them for their accounting. The build quality is great but I was immediately repulsed by a number of things: - forcing me to sign in with a Microsoft account - setting ‘new’ outlook as the default - ‘new’ outlook wanting to divert all Google workspaces emails (that I have set up for them) through onto outlook servers (….!!!!!) - a particularly weird one I wasn’t sure I’d be able to overcome when I accidentally set my keyboard to GB-en instead of US-En and couldn’t press enter (surely the walkthrough knows what sort of keyboard it’s got and won’t let you make a stupid choice before you’re even in on the desktop right? Wrong!!!) I have to use windows machines at one of my workplaces (…a hospital) - it’s really jarring to see ads in the start menu

Rinzler89 2y ago
>forcing me to sign in with a Microsoft account - Pro tip I discovered by accident: If you type in any gibberish account name/email that doesn't exist, it will throw an error and move on with the setup without needing an account. No need to fuck with cmd line registry incantations or rufus. >I have to use windows machines at one of my workplaces (…a hospital) - it’s really jarring to see ads in the start menu Why didn't you remove them? I always do that.
- robbiep 2y ago
  Good pro tip, will check that out. Was unsure you could remove them! Honestly it feels so weird using Microsoft machines now; I’m very unused to feeling so transparently that I am the product (although Samsung tv s having ads seems pretty bloody rude as well)
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    >Was unsure you could remove them! Why wouldn't you be able to remove them ? Nobody would have used this if ads were not removable. Just right click -> remove.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago

joecot 2y ago

When Silicon Valley, particularly Apple, successfully got an antitrust case brought against Microsoft, it was because Apple and crew had more lobbyists in DC. Way more. It's not something that Microsoft had really worried about, so they were caught flat footed. After that case, Microsoft learned the lesson, and sent quite a few lobbyists. There will be no action in the US against Microsoft for the same reason there's been no action in the US against Apple. There will be the occasional case against any company in Silicon Valley when they're too overt about it, but they'll get a slap on the wrist and sent on their way to continue doing the same antitrust behavior. No one will ever reasonably suggest splitting them up again.