7 ms·

Next step in the Chrome OS journey

60 points by cleverjake 14y ago

splatzone 14y ago
I dunno about the Chromebox. I can't see many of my friends setting up a monitor, mouse and keyboard for a computer that only runs Chrome OS. It's interesting, though.
- varikin 14y ago
  I can see it being perfect for my parents who use Facebook, email, and write documents. Also, I could be great for schools for the same reason or for some office workers that just need email and Google Docs. I think this fits with that other item on Hacker News today about targeting the right user. In this case, for a non power user, this has great potential.
  - mtgx 14y ago
    I think both Chromebooks and Chromeboxes make sense for libraries, too. They don't need people to install who knows what on their PC's (although there are some tools to prevent that), and this should be a lot safer.
- ConstantineXVI 14y ago
  Friends, no. Workplace IT, yes.
- dsr_ 14y ago
  More interesting if it gets integrated with GoogleTV, or (less likely) a TiVo.
- fidotron 14y ago
  What's really curious is that in a way it's up against Raspberry Pi, but literally an order of magnitude more expensive. Obviously it's more powerful, but . . . They really need to get the cost of the Chrome devices way down from where they are.
  - georgemcbay 14y ago
    The Raspberry Pi is pretty neat but good luck using it as a general purpose HTML5-display box. Way too slow for that. I agree that the cost of Chrome devices needs to be lower, but they need to be priced closer to midrange Android tablets (~250-300$) than Raspberry Pis.
    - wavephorm 14y ago
      It does have an h264 chip which might make HTML5 video usable.
      - mtgx 14y ago
        RPi is good for video, but I think he meant overall browsing performance. RPi will be pretty slow at that.
    - fidotron 14y ago
      Yes, I think aiming for RPi equivalence would be extreme! That said, it would be curious to see what kind of processor ends up being optimal for HTML5 content. It's not completely inconceivable that architectures will end up being tuned for JS execution.
  - mmahemoff 14y ago
    Chromebox/book is at the opposite end of the spectrum from Raspberry PI though in terms of who it's targeting and the problem it's solving.
- jonknee 14y ago
  I'd love if my SaaS clients would use a Chromebox so that I only have to worry about keeping the app running. If you use a computer just for a web app, having the overhead of having to properly keep Windows running and updated is quite taxing (regardless of the issue, it's your fault if they can't log in to the inventory system).
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
iRobot 14y ago
Where are the ARM based Chrome books ?
- nsoldiac 14y ago
  Maybe they're trying to focus on a single architecture...so NOW they're worried about avoiding fragmentation, jeez.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    What a nonsensical FUDish comment.
  - mtgx 14y ago
    Why would there be any fragmentation? You're running the web on it...the web is architecture agnostic. This is why it never really made sense for me why they went with Intel and x86, when they could've started from day one on ARM. They are not bound by legacy software on a specific architecture, like Windows is with x86.
mtgx 14y ago
ARM versions for half the price, please (preferably based on the latest Cortex A15 CPU and Mali GPU).
- ajross 14y ago
  The cheapest option is $350 (a Cedar Trail board, the $450 one says "Intel Core" which probably means Sandy Bridge). What makes you think you can build an ARM board (with a core that doesn't even exist in the market yet!) for $175, much less sell it for that? The only device in the market that even comes close is the Kindle, and that's heavily subsidized by content revenue.
  - mtgx 14y ago
    I meant half the price compared to the latest Chromebook from Samsung which is $450. They need at least a few models in the $200-$250 range, even if they have to make them "lower-end". But I think Cortex A15 will be a great match for that, unless they totally messed up the cross-platform optimization, and ChromeOS will be slower on ARM than on a similar-performance x86 chip. Plus, you'll get at least double the battery life - which is kind of necessary for a Web-only/mobility device.
    - ajross 14y ago
      OK, where are you going to find a $225 non-subsidized ARM box? Same logic applies. I see nothing even close to that range. A tablet or smartphone with these specs is going to run you $500+. And you need to check (or better, run) a few benchmarks before making pronouncements like that. Per-clock, SNB beats the A9 in my OMAP4 phone by about 2x on stuff that fits in the L1 cache, and a bunch more on things that spill out (the phone SoC has absolutely nothing like the L3 cache on SNB).
      - mtgx 14y ago
        There are $250 Windows-based netbooks, where you actually have to pay a pretty big license cost..so.. I think it's very doable. I just don't think the manufacturers want to go that low because they want to exploit the early adopter market, and/or because Google was not ready with support for ARM.
zmanian 14y ago
What seems to be needed is a retail channel that can explain what/why and why of Chrome book? Something like Samsungs Galaxy S3 Popups stores. Google's staff at the Chrome OS booths in Aiports did a great job of this but you couldn't purchase a Chromebook there.
- tolmasky 14y ago
  I don't understand what crosses a company's mind when they make a booth where they explain a product but don't allow you to buy it. Nintendo took over a good part of the third (?) floor of the mall here in SF last Christmas where you could play the new 3DS and a bunch of their latest titles (all released). I asked to purchase one and they then proceeded to think out loud about the closest gamestop where I "might" find it -- because this booth was for demos only, not for actually buying anything.
  - dannyr 14y ago
    It's because you need to secure business license to sell.
    - zachkatz 14y ago
      Nintendo can't secure a business license?
    - tolmasky 14y ago
      If some no-name iPhone case stand can secure this at the mall, then surely Nintendo can too? Why go through the outrageous cost of setting up an elaborate "Nintendo Winter World" or whatever they called it -- and stop just short of being able to make any actual sales?
      - Steko 14y ago
        The real problem is Nintendo's retail partners will get upset. At that point just setting up a kiosk can either lead to "we just won't do sales" or spirals into "lets get our partners involved too" which gives you a kiosk designed by committee.
nsoldiac 14y ago
Is Chrome OS a stepping stone from Android as a 'stretched-out' OS, or more in the way of Android trying transitioning bigger screen formats, such as: http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and-Services/DROID-Bionic-Accessories-page/DROID-Bionic-Accessories http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and... I know they're obvious differences, but I'm focusing in the similarities...does anyone see my point? Would love to know other's opinions.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  I don't know, but why Google and Asus don't release a Transformer that dual boots Android and Chrome OS is beyond me. Yes, Flash already has ARM ports working anyway.
  - trotsky 14y ago
    They are working on an arm port for an unnamed device but it seems like it's still under heavy development. One reason you likely won't see something like the transformer running chromeos is their upstream first policy, which suggests that they won't ship chrome on devices that don't have their driver base included in the base linux kernel. There are exceptions, but I get the feeling they aren't interested in core drivers like graphics being one of them.
    - drivebyacct2 14y ago
      Ugh. That makes an unfortunate amount of sense, I hadn't even thought through the embedded device drivers problem. Extremely frustrating across devices and OSes. :[
- jallmann 14y ago
  To hazard a guess: the higher-ups at Google think (know?) that the future lies in the open web. Android is a stopgap to compete in the current mobile environment, but I'm hoping ChromeOS displaces Android entirely in the next 3-5 years. WebOS started down that path, and Mozilla is really doing it right with B2G. I think Google realizes the same. This transition can't happen suddenly. Google may also be waiting for the rest of the mom-and-pop web to catch up with the capabilities of native apps (via WebRTC, WebGL, etc) without having to depend so much on extensions, NaCl plugins and the like. At that point, ChromeOS will "just work" for rich applications alongside the rest of the web, which neatly sidesteps any fragmentation issues.
mmastrac 14y ago
The Google Chromebook is an interesting product to watch. I've been using them since the Cr-48 days. In fact, two Chromebook laptops were in service in our household until just a few weeks ago when the Samsung Chromebook broke (although I hope to repair it soon). These laptops sit next to our couch in a stack as a set of floater laptops we use for random surfing. If any of us are just looking for a quick bite of information, we generally pull out the Chromebook rather than walking over to the Macbook that sits on our kitchen counter. The Chromebook is also great for our son to use when building LEGO from PDF instructions. Browsing is far better on the Chromebook than it is on any Android or Apple device I've used, hands down. I find the browsing experience to be frustrating on an iPad or my Galaxy 10", while the Chromebook experience is flawless. The device is basically ready-to-use for browsing as soon as you lift the lid, in contrast to the fair amount of time it takes to get logged into the Macbook (especially if another user has a few applications open in their session). The hardware itself in the early models was slightly underpowered, but that doesn't really seem to matter much unless you're playing a particularly intensive Flash video or HTML5 game. Scrolling is fairly slow on complex sites like Google+ as well. For what we use it for, the hardware is pretty decent. The touchpads have also been hit-and-miss in the early models. What makes these devices a hard sell is the price point. The cheapest Chromebook experience you can get today is the Acer (@ $300). Considering the fact that you are buying a piece of hardware that effectively does less than a laptop, I would find it hard to justify spending that amount if I were looking at hardware today. Even though I prefer to use the Chromebook when surfing over the tablets or the full laptop, I feel like the cost is just too much for a single-purpose device like this. For Chromebooks to really take off in the home market, I think that a device with the equivalent power to the Samsung Chromebook 5 needs to be on the market at a $199 price point. I could see myself buying them at that price. I don't see the Chromebox being popular in households ever - I believe that we'll see the decline of the non-portable computer going forward at home. Alternatively, if we saw some sort of Android hybrid integration with the Chromebook, I think that this could radically change the equation and add significant perceived value to the device. Now, if I were running a business where a large subset of employees could get by with just web access, I would definitely consider rolling these out. The Chromebox looks like it could be a real game changer for business.
- saurik 14y ago
n-gauge 14y ago
Can a Chromebook / box run webGL?
- mtgx 14y ago
  It's probably using a very old/low-end integrated graphics chip from Intel, so it might run WebGL, but probably not the most advanced demos.
  - bd 14y ago
    It seems to use Intel HD 3000 [1] and runs WebGL surprisingly well [2][3] (actually better than Macbook Pro with the same GPU [4]). [1] http://www.chromestory.com/2012/05/samsung-chromebox-price/ http://www.chromestory.com/2012/05/samsung-chromebox-price/ [2] http://twitter.com/Tojiro/status/207604697073324032 http://twitter.com/Tojiro/status/207604697073324032 [3] http://twitter.com/Tojiro/status/207607126716198914 http://twitter.com/Tojiro/status/207607126716198914 [4] http://twitter.com/thespite/status/207618510443134977 http://twitter.com/thespite/status/207618510443134977
nickpresta 14y ago
The CPU on the Chromebox is listed as 1.9 GHz Celeron B840. Can this play 1080p MKV? If so, this could my WD Live, Patriot Box Office, etc. Add a BT mouse/keyboard and I'm set.
DannoHung 14y ago
Wonder how the box would work as a set-top (goodbye Google TV?)
jiggy2011 14y ago
I originally thought that chrome OS was a ridiculous idea , but the more I think about the more I see this as being what more traditional desktop/laptop systems will look like in a few years time. The key here I think is an operating system UI built on the understanding that modern applications have both client and server components that are equally important and need to blend together seamlessly. For example , about 50% of the applications I use are on the web/internet yet my browser is just an application like any other on my launch bar.
swah 14y ago
Will it ever be distributed like a linux distro?
- lunarscape 14y ago
  You can download Chromium OS builds [1]. There are a few differences compared to ChromeOS [2]. [1] http://chromeos.hexxeh.net/ http://chromeos.hexxeh.net/ [2] http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromium-os-faq#TOC-What-s-the-difference-between-Chromium-OS-and-Google-Chrome-OS- http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromium-os-faq#TOC-What...

60 points by cleverjake 14y ago

I dunno about the Chromebox. I can't see many of my friends setting up a monitor, mouse and keyboard for a computer that only runs Chrome OS. It's interesting, though.

varikin 14y ago
I can see it being perfect for my parents who use Facebook, email, and write documents. Also, I could be great for schools for the same reason or for some office workers that just need email and Google Docs. I think this fits with that other item on Hacker News today about targeting the right user. In this case, for a non power user, this has great potential.
- mtgx 14y ago
  I think both Chromebooks and Chromeboxes make sense for libraries, too. They don't need people to install who knows what on their PC's (although there are some tools to prevent that), and this should be a lot safer.
ConstantineXVI 14y ago
Friends, no. Workplace IT, yes.
dsr_ 14y ago
More interesting if it gets integrated with GoogleTV, or (less likely) a TiVo.
fidotron 14y ago
What's really curious is that in a way it's up against Raspberry Pi, but literally an order of magnitude more expensive. Obviously it's more powerful, but . . . They really need to get the cost of the Chrome devices way down from where they are.
- georgemcbay 14y ago
  The Raspberry Pi is pretty neat but good luck using it as a general purpose HTML5-display box. Way too slow for that. I agree that the cost of Chrome devices needs to be lower, but they need to be priced closer to midrange Android tablets (~250-300$) than Raspberry Pis.
  - wavephorm 14y ago
    It does have an h264 chip which might make HTML5 video usable.
    - mtgx 14y ago
      RPi is good for video, but I think he meant overall browsing performance. RPi will be pretty slow at that.
  - fidotron 14y ago
    Yes, I think aiming for RPi equivalence would be extreme! That said, it would be curious to see what kind of processor ends up being optimal for HTML5 content. It's not completely inconceivable that architectures will end up being tuned for JS execution.
- mmahemoff 14y ago
  Chromebox/book is at the opposite end of the spectrum from Raspberry PI though in terms of who it's targeting and the problem it's solving.
jonknee 14y ago
I'd love if my SaaS clients would use a Chromebox so that I only have to worry about keeping the app running. If you use a computer just for a web app, having the overhead of having to properly keep Windows running and updated is quite taxing (regardless of the issue, it's your fault if they can't log in to the inventory system).
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

iRobot 14y ago

Where are the ARM based Chrome books ?

nsoldiac 14y ago
Maybe they're trying to focus on a single architecture...so NOW they're worried about avoiding fragmentation, jeez.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  What a nonsensical FUDish comment.
- mtgx 14y ago
  Why would there be any fragmentation? You're running the web on it...the web is architecture agnostic. This is why it never really made sense for me why they went with Intel and x86, when they could've started from day one on ARM. They are not bound by legacy software on a specific architecture, like Windows is with x86.

mtgx 14y ago

ARM versions for half the price, please (preferably based on the latest Cortex A15 CPU and Mali GPU).

ajross 14y ago
The cheapest option is $350 (a Cedar Trail board, the $450 one says "Intel Core" which probably means Sandy Bridge). What makes you think you can build an ARM board (with a core that doesn't even exist in the market yet!) for $175, much less sell it for that? The only device in the market that even comes close is the Kindle, and that's heavily subsidized by content revenue.
- mtgx 14y ago
  I meant half the price compared to the latest Chromebook from Samsung which is $450. They need at least a few models in the $200-$250 range, even if they have to make them "lower-end". But I think Cortex A15 will be a great match for that, unless they totally messed up the cross-platform optimization, and ChromeOS will be slower on ARM than on a similar-performance x86 chip. Plus, you'll get at least double the battery life - which is kind of necessary for a Web-only/mobility device.
  - ajross 14y ago
    OK, where are you going to find a $225 non-subsidized ARM box? Same logic applies. I see nothing even close to that range. A tablet or smartphone with these specs is going to run you $500+. And you need to check (or better, run) a few benchmarks before making pronouncements like that. Per-clock, SNB beats the A9 in my OMAP4 phone by about 2x on stuff that fits in the L1 cache, and a bunch more on things that spill out (the phone SoC has absolutely nothing like the L3 cache on SNB).
    - mtgx 14y ago
      There are $250 Windows-based netbooks, where you actually have to pay a pretty big license cost..so.. I think it's very doable. I just don't think the manufacturers want to go that low because they want to exploit the early adopter market, and/or because Google was not ready with support for ARM.

zmanian 14y ago

What seems to be needed is a retail channel that can explain what/why and why of Chrome book? Something like Samsungs Galaxy S3 Popups stores. Google's staff at the Chrome OS booths in Aiports did a great job of this but you couldn't purchase a Chromebook there.

tolmasky 14y ago
I don't understand what crosses a company's mind when they make a booth where they explain a product but don't allow you to buy it. Nintendo took over a good part of the third (?) floor of the mall here in SF last Christmas where you could play the new 3DS and a bunch of their latest titles (all released). I asked to purchase one and they then proceeded to think out loud about the closest gamestop where I "might" find it -- because this booth was for demos only, not for actually buying anything.
- dannyr 14y ago
  It's because you need to secure business license to sell.
  - zachkatz 14y ago
    Nintendo can't secure a business license?
  - tolmasky 14y ago
    If some no-name iPhone case stand can secure this at the mall, then surely Nintendo can too? Why go through the outrageous cost of setting up an elaborate "Nintendo Winter World" or whatever they called it -- and stop just short of being able to make any actual sales?
    - Steko 14y ago
      The real problem is Nintendo's retail partners will get upset. At that point just setting up a kiosk can either lead to "we just won't do sales" or spirals into "lets get our partners involved too" which gives you a kiosk designed by committee.

nsoldiac 14y ago

Is Chrome OS a stepping stone from Android as a 'stretched-out' OS, or more in the way of Android trying transitioning bigger screen formats, such as: http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and-Services/DROID-Bionic-Accessories-page/DROID-Bionic-Accessories http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and... I know they're obvious differences, but I'm focusing in the similarities...does anyone see my point? Would love to know other's opinions.

drivebyacct2 14y ago
I don't know, but why Google and Asus don't release a Transformer that dual boots Android and Chrome OS is beyond me. Yes, Flash already has ARM ports working anyway.
- trotsky 14y ago
  They are working on an arm port for an unnamed device but it seems like it's still under heavy development. One reason you likely won't see something like the transformer running chromeos is their upstream first policy, which suggests that they won't ship chrome on devices that don't have their driver base included in the base linux kernel. There are exceptions, but I get the feeling they aren't interested in core drivers like graphics being one of them.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    Ugh. That makes an unfortunate amount of sense, I hadn't even thought through the embedded device drivers problem. Extremely frustrating across devices and OSes. :[
jallmann 14y ago
To hazard a guess: the higher-ups at Google think (know?) that the future lies in the open web. Android is a stopgap to compete in the current mobile environment, but I'm hoping ChromeOS displaces Android entirely in the next 3-5 years. WebOS started down that path, and Mozilla is really doing it right with B2G. I think Google realizes the same. This transition can't happen suddenly. Google may also be waiting for the rest of the mom-and-pop web to catch up with the capabilities of native apps (via WebRTC, WebGL, etc) without having to depend so much on extensions, NaCl plugins and the like. At that point, ChromeOS will "just work" for rich applications alongside the rest of the web, which neatly sidesteps any fragmentation issues.

mmastrac 14y ago

The Google Chromebook is an interesting product to watch. I've been using them since the Cr-48 days. In fact, two Chromebook laptops were in service in our household until just a few weeks ago when the Samsung Chromebook broke (although I hope to repair it soon). These laptops sit next to our couch in a stack as a set of floater laptops we use for random surfing. If any of us are just looking for a quick bite of information, we generally pull out the Chromebook rather than walking over to the Macbook that sits on our kitchen counter. The Chromebook is also great for our son to use when building LEGO from PDF instructions. Browsing is far better on the Chromebook than it is on any Android or Apple device I've used, hands down. I find the browsing experience to be frustrating on an iPad or my Galaxy 10", while the Chromebook experience is flawless. The device is basically ready-to-use for browsing as soon as you lift the lid, in contrast to the fair amount of time it takes to get logged into the Macbook (especially if another user has a few applications open in their session). The hardware itself in the early models was slightly underpowered, but that doesn't really seem to matter much unless you're playing a particularly intensive Flash video or HTML5 game. Scrolling is fairly slow on complex sites like Google+ as well. For what we use it for, the hardware is pretty decent. The touchpads have also been hit-and-miss in the early models. What makes these devices a hard sell is the price point. The cheapest Chromebook experience you can get today is the Acer (@ $300). Considering the fact that you are buying a piece of hardware that effectively does less than a laptop, I would find it hard to justify spending that amount if I were looking at hardware today. Even though I prefer to use the Chromebook when surfing over the tablets or the full laptop, I feel like the cost is just too much for a single-purpose device like this. For Chromebooks to really take off in the home market, I think that a device with the equivalent power to the Samsung Chromebook 5 needs to be on the market at a $199 price point. I could see myself buying them at that price. I don't see the Chromebox being popular in households ever - I believe that we'll see the decline of the non-portable computer going forward at home. Alternatively, if we saw some sort of Android hybrid integration with the Chromebook, I think that this could radically change the equation and add significant perceived value to the device. Now, if I were running a business where a large subset of employees could get by with just web access, I would definitely consider rolling these out. The Chromebox looks like it could be a real game changer for business.

saurik 14y ago

n-gauge 14y ago

Can a Chromebook / box run webGL?

mtgx 14y ago
It's probably using a very old/low-end integrated graphics chip from Intel, so it might run WebGL, but probably not the most advanced demos.
- bd 14y ago
  It seems to use Intel HD 3000 [1] and runs WebGL surprisingly well [2][3] (actually better than Macbook Pro with the same GPU [4]). [1] http://www.chromestory.com/2012/05/samsung-chromebox-price/ http://www.chromestory.com/2012/05/samsung-chromebox-price/ [2] http://twitter.com/Tojiro/status/207604697073324032 http://twitter.com/Tojiro/status/207604697073324032 [3] http://twitter.com/Tojiro/status/207607126716198914 http://twitter.com/Tojiro/status/207607126716198914 [4] http://twitter.com/thespite/status/207618510443134977 http://twitter.com/thespite/status/207618510443134977

nickpresta 14y ago

The CPU on the Chromebox is listed as 1.9 GHz Celeron B840. Can this play 1080p MKV? If so, this could my WD Live, Patriot Box Office, etc. Add a BT mouse/keyboard and I'm set.

DannoHung 14y ago

Wonder how the box would work as a set-top (goodbye Google TV?)

jiggy2011 14y ago

I originally thought that chrome OS was a ridiculous idea , but the more I think about the more I see this as being what more traditional desktop/laptop systems will look like in a few years time. The key here I think is an operating system UI built on the understanding that modern applications have both client and server components that are equally important and need to blend together seamlessly. For example , about 50% of the applications I use are on the web/internet yet my browser is just an application like any other on my launch bar.

swah 14y ago

Will it ever be distributed like a linux distro?

lunarscape 14y ago
You can download Chromium OS builds [1]. There are a few differences compared to ChromeOS [2]. [1] http://chromeos.hexxeh.net/ http://chromeos.hexxeh.net/ [2] http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromium-os-faq#TOC-What-s-the-difference-between-Chromium-OS-and-Google-Chrome-OS- http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromium-os-faq#TOC-What...