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I think it's more lame to disregard this ideology. What if Germany had the nuke first? "oh well, at least we held to our morals" There's this ideal human soc

I think it's more lame to disregard this ideology. What if Germany had the nuke first? "oh well, at least we held to our morals" There's this ideal human sociology, and then there's the reality of what we really are. It takes a unique person to accept it, and do the wrong thing for the right reason, and also be able to steer things in the eventual right direction.

asah 2y ago
interesting example because we defeated Germany without nukes...
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > we defeated Germany without nukes In part by firebombing them indiscriminately. The way we won WWII would later be technically outlawed by the Geneva Conventions.
  - dunekid 2y ago
    As if dropping the bombs on Japanese civilian population would be allowed by Geneva convention.
    - kazinator 2y ago
      Did you misread outlawed as allowed?
      - dunekid 2y ago
        I didn't. But reading the whole thread again, I think the parent was saying even though Germany wasn't captured by nukes, it still was pretty gruelling to the civilian population. In that case my comment is not really adding to it. But I wanted to point that nukes were pretty bad too and even worse in many ways. There was a minisicule military objective in the use of those, but it was more of a threat to the whole world.
- zhengiszen 2y ago
  We as Soviet Russia ? The lost more than 20 million.people to beat the Nazis without that sacrifice Europe would be lost
croes 2y ago
How did the Atom bomb stop Nazi Germany? And do you think dropping the bomb on Germany would have humbled them or would they seek revenge in the long term? The bombs brought as MAD and that only works as long all parties try to stay alive and don't there is a paradise in the afterlife if they die for a holy cause.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > How did the Atom bomb stop Nazi Germany? It didn't. The fear was that the Nazis might develop nuclear weapons and use them to end the war on its own terms [1]. > do you think dropping the bomb on Germany would have humbled them or would they seek revenge in the long term? Yes, our eternal enemy the Japanese. > bombs brought as MAD and that only works as long all parties try to stay alive and don't there is a paradise in the afterlife if they die for a holy cause Fair enough. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein–Szilard_letter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein–Szilard_letter
legitster 2y ago
It's pretty telling that the German nuclear scientists themselves were somewhat relieved that the US developed the bomb before them: https://ghdi.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=2320 https://ghdi.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=2320

asah 2y ago

interesting example because we defeated Germany without nukes...

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> we defeated Germany without nukes In part by firebombing them indiscriminately. The way we won WWII would later be technically outlawed by the Geneva Conventions.
- dunekid 2y ago
  As if dropping the bombs on Japanese civilian population would be allowed by Geneva convention.
  - kazinator 2y ago
    Did you misread outlawed as allowed?
    - dunekid 2y ago
      I didn't. But reading the whole thread again, I think the parent was saying even though Germany wasn't captured by nukes, it still was pretty gruelling to the civilian population. In that case my comment is not really adding to it. But I wanted to point that nukes were pretty bad too and even worse in many ways. There was a minisicule military objective in the use of those, but it was more of a threat to the whole world.
zhengiszen 2y ago
We as Soviet Russia ? The lost more than 20 million.people to beat the Nazis without that sacrifice Europe would be lost

croes 2y ago

How did the Atom bomb stop Nazi Germany? And do you think dropping the bomb on Germany would have humbled them or would they seek revenge in the long term? The bombs brought as MAD and that only works as long all parties try to stay alive and don't there is a paradise in the afterlife if they die for a holy cause.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> How did the Atom bomb stop Nazi Germany? It didn't. The fear was that the Nazis might develop nuclear weapons and use them to end the war on its own terms [1]. > do you think dropping the bomb on Germany would have humbled them or would they seek revenge in the long term? Yes, our eternal enemy the Japanese. > bombs brought as MAD and that only works as long all parties try to stay alive and don't there is a paradise in the afterlife if they die for a holy cause Fair enough. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein–Szilard_letter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein–Szilard_letter

legitster 2y ago

It's pretty telling that the German nuclear scientists themselves were somewhat relieved that the US developed the bomb before them: https://ghdi.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=2320 https://ghdi.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=2320