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Comparing Twitter back when the "Arab Spring" occurred to TikTok feels somewhat unfair, in that the former was often a pathway for journalists and human rights

Comparing Twitter back when the "Arab Spring" occurred to TikTok feels somewhat unfair, in that the former was often a pathway for journalists and human rights activists, an the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet. I'd also point out that the Arab Spring was a total failure, leading to nothing more or less than disruption, death, and either a return to the status quo ante, or something even worse.

zrn900 2y ago
> Comparing Twitter back when the "Arab Spring" occurred to TikTok feels somewhat unfair, in that the former was often a pathway for journalists and human rights activists, an the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet. Yeah, when social media helps the US regime change operations, it's 'free speech and democracy'. When it hurts them, it's 'CCP propaganda' - or whatever 'national enemy' that's being targeted at that point in time. What's amazing is how there are still people who use the word 'CCP' as if it was a scare word that would have any effect on the people from the global south. And actually even Europe.
- shitlord 2y ago
  The Global South includes the entire ASEAN trading bloc and India. At least two of these countries have territorial disputes with China. The influence and actions of the Chinese government matter quite a lot.
  - EA-3167 2y ago
    I've found that "The Global South" is really just a phrase used by a certain kind of person, trying to legitimize the notion of solidarity where none exists. Poverty is not solidarity, it's just poverty.
    - zrn900 2y ago
      If that helps you cope, go ahead. Meanwhile... https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/the-world-today/2024-02/stop-taking-global-south-granted https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/the-world-today/20... https://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/en/analyses/europe-and-the-global-south-how-to-gain-influence-and-credibility-in-a-complex-world/ https://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/en/analyses/europe-and-t...
  - zrn900 2y ago
    > At least two of these countries have territorial disputes with China. And the extent of those disputes is shooting water cannons at each other from ships. The worst thing that happens is the circus that India and China mount at the border by throwing stones to each other whenever Modi needs something to use for shoring up support in internal politics. At the exact same time they sign billions of dollars trade deals behind the doors...
    - shitlord 2y ago
      The worst things that happened so far don't seem so bad because everyone involved is trying to avoid escalation. The worst thing that can happen is full-blown warfare involving China, Taiwan, the Phillippines, India, smaller countries in the region, and allied countries (along with all of the impacts to global trade).
      - zrn900 2y ago
        > because everyone involved is trying to avoid escalation. And that's why the worst case will never happen - behind all those circus, all of those countries (maybe except Taiwan) are doing immense amount of business with each other and increasing the amount of that business behind closed doors. But its certain that circuses will continue whenever a local government needs to rile up domestic support for any reason.
perihelions 2y ago
- "an the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet." I'm simply quoting the New Caledonian politician explaining his own motives in his own words, and he said it's "to stop protesters from "organizing reunions and protests"". So I think the parallel to 2011 is a solid one. - "I'd also point out that the Arab Spring was a total failure" I agree with Obama's well-chosen words: human rights are "universal", not consequentialist. "We should deny you freedom of political speech because your politics are a failure" is not a category of argumentation I can accept, if you see where I'm coming from here. That's a generic justification for any autocrat to silence their opponents—their politics are wrong (from my point of view), so, I shall crack down on them for the good of the public.
sunaookami 2y ago
>an the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet Seems like the US propaganda against TikTok successfully worked. What a sad day. We should never encourage censoring social media and free speech. If a self-proclaimed liberal democracy can only win by censoring it is neither liberal nor a democracy.
- NLPaep 2y ago
  It’s not free speech if the content distribution is purposefully weighted towards showing specific agendas
- petre 2y ago
  Sure. A CCP linked Chinese company controls the narratives. So no Xi jokes on TikTok.
- krapp 2y ago
  Pointing in the general direction of "communists" and shrieking like that guy at the end of Invasion of the Body Snatchers[0] has been an effective backdoor into the American zeitgeist for almost a century. It doesn't matter what rights need to be compromised, what morals undermined, what transgressions done, Americans will do anything, permit anything to quell the Red Menace, whatever form it takes. Only their collective fear of the Angry Black Man is more primal. [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo
squigz 2y ago
> an(d) the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet. And Twitter is a Western propaganda outlet.

zrn900 2y ago

> Comparing Twitter back when the "Arab Spring" occurred to TikTok feels somewhat unfair, in that the former was often a pathway for journalists and human rights activists, an the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet. Yeah, when social media helps the US regime change operations, it's 'free speech and democracy'. When it hurts them, it's 'CCP propaganda' - or whatever 'national enemy' that's being targeted at that point in time. What's amazing is how there are still people who use the word 'CCP' as if it was a scare word that would have any effect on the people from the global south. And actually even Europe.

shitlord 2y ago
The Global South includes the entire ASEAN trading bloc and India. At least two of these countries have territorial disputes with China. The influence and actions of the Chinese government matter quite a lot.
- EA-3167 2y ago
  I've found that "The Global South" is really just a phrase used by a certain kind of person, trying to legitimize the notion of solidarity where none exists. Poverty is not solidarity, it's just poverty.
  - zrn900 2y ago
    If that helps you cope, go ahead. Meanwhile... https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/the-world-today/2024-02/stop-taking-global-south-granted https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/the-world-today/20... https://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/en/analyses/europe-and-the-global-south-how-to-gain-influence-and-credibility-in-a-complex-world/ https://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/en/analyses/europe-and-t...
- zrn900 2y ago
  > At least two of these countries have territorial disputes with China. And the extent of those disputes is shooting water cannons at each other from ships. The worst thing that happens is the circus that India and China mount at the border by throwing stones to each other whenever Modi needs something to use for shoring up support in internal politics. At the exact same time they sign billions of dollars trade deals behind the doors...
  - shitlord 2y ago
    The worst things that happened so far don't seem so bad because everyone involved is trying to avoid escalation. The worst thing that can happen is full-blown warfare involving China, Taiwan, the Phillippines, India, smaller countries in the region, and allied countries (along with all of the impacts to global trade).
    - zrn900 2y ago
      > because everyone involved is trying to avoid escalation. And that's why the worst case will never happen - behind all those circus, all of those countries (maybe except Taiwan) are doing immense amount of business with each other and increasing the amount of that business behind closed doors. But its certain that circuses will continue whenever a local government needs to rile up domestic support for any reason.

perihelions 2y ago

- "an the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet." I'm simply quoting the New Caledonian politician explaining his own motives in his own words, and he said it's "to stop protesters from "organizing reunions and protests"". So I think the parallel to 2011 is a solid one. - "I'd also point out that the Arab Spring was a total failure" I agree with Obama's well-chosen words: human rights are "universal", not consequentialist. "We should deny you freedom of political speech because your politics are a failure" is not a category of argumentation I can accept, if you see where I'm coming from here. That's a generic justification for any autocrat to silence their opponents—their politics are wrong (from my point of view), so, I shall crack down on them for the good of the public.

sunaookami 2y ago

>an the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet Seems like the US propaganda against TikTok successfully worked. What a sad day. We should never encourage censoring social media and free speech. If a self-proclaimed liberal democracy can only win by censoring it is neither liberal nor a democracy.

NLPaep 2y ago
It’s not free speech if the content distribution is purposefully weighted towards showing specific agendas
petre 2y ago
Sure. A CCP linked Chinese company controls the narratives. So no Xi jokes on TikTok.
krapp 2y ago
Pointing in the general direction of "communists" and shrieking like that guy at the end of Invasion of the Body Snatchers[0] has been an effective backdoor into the American zeitgeist for almost a century. It doesn't matter what rights need to be compromised, what morals undermined, what transgressions done, Americans will do anything, permit anything to quell the Red Menace, whatever form it takes. Only their collective fear of the Angry Black Man is more primal. [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo

squigz 2y ago

> an(d) the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet. And Twitter is a Western propaganda outlet.