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- "Philippe Gomes, the former president of New Caledonia's government, told POLITICO the decision aimed to stop protesters from "organizing reunions and protest

- "Philippe Gomes, the former president of New Caledonia's government, told POLITICO the decision aimed to stop protesters from "organizing reunions and protests" through the app." This is near-identical to the Arab Spring revolts and their leaders blocking Twitter, and with identical motives. - "‘The people of Egypt have rights that are universal,’ Obama said. ‘That includes the right to peaceful assembly and association, the right to free speech and the ability to determine their own destiny. These are human rights and the United States will stand up for them everywhere." - "‘I also call upon the Egyptian government to reverse the actions that they’ve taken to interfere with access to the Internet, with cellphone service and to social networks that do so much to connect people in the 21st century.’" https://www.latimes.com/archives/blogs/technology-blog/story/2011-01-28/president-obama-calls-on-egypt-to-bring-back-the-internet-social-media https://www.latimes.com/archives/blogs/technology-blog/story... (2011) (It's not as if "but violence" is some fundamental distinction here: Obama's same speech expressly addresses the problem of violence in the Egypt protests, and that article adds context that there were several deaths in the days preceding his remarks).

EA-3167 2y ago
Comparing Twitter back when the "Arab Spring" occurred to TikTok feels somewhat unfair, in that the former was often a pathway for journalists and human rights activists, an the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet. I'd also point out that the Arab Spring was a total failure, leading to nothing more or less than disruption, death, and either a return to the status quo ante, or something even worse.
- zrn900 2y ago
  > Comparing Twitter back when the "Arab Spring" occurred to TikTok feels somewhat unfair, in that the former was often a pathway for journalists and human rights activists, an the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet. Yeah, when social media helps the US regime change operations, it's 'free speech and democracy'. When it hurts them, it's 'CCP propaganda' - or whatever 'national enemy' that's being targeted at that point in time. What's amazing is how there are still people who use the word 'CCP' as if it was a scare word that would have any effect on the people from the global south. And actually even Europe.
  - shitlord 2y ago
    The Global South includes the entire ASEAN trading bloc and India. At least two of these countries have territorial disputes with China. The influence and actions of the Chinese government matter quite a lot.
    - EA-3167 2y ago
      I've found that "The Global South" is really just a phrase used by a certain kind of person, trying to legitimize the notion of solidarity where none exists. Poverty is not solidarity, it's just poverty.
      - zrn900 2y ago
        If that helps you cope, go ahead. Meanwhile... https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/the-world-today/2024-02/stop-taking-global-south-granted https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/the-world-today/20... https://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/en/analyses/europe-and-the-global-south-how-to-gain-influence-and-credibility-in-a-complex-world/ https://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/en/analyses/europe-and-t...
    - zrn900 2y ago
      > At least two of these countries have territorial disputes with China. And the extent of those disputes is shooting water cannons at each other from ships. The worst thing that happens is the circus that India and China mount at the border by throwing stones to each other whenever Modi needs something to use for shoring up support in internal politics. At the exact same time they sign billions of dollars trade deals behind the doors...
      - shitlord 2y ago
        The worst things that happened so far don't seem so bad because everyone involved is trying to avoid escalation. The worst thing that can happen is full-blown warfare involving China, Taiwan, the Phillippines, India, smaller countries in the region, and allied countries (along with all of the impacts to global trade).
- perihelions 2y ago
  - "an the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet." I'm simply quoting the New Caledonian politician explaining his own motives in his own words, and he said it's "to stop protesters from "organizing reunions and protests"". So I think the parallel to 2011 is a solid one. - "I'd also point out that the Arab Spring was a total failure" I agree with Obama's well-chosen words: human rights are "universal", not consequentialist. "We should deny you freedom of political speech because your politics are a failure" is not a category of argumentation I can accept, if you see where I'm coming from here. That's a generic justification for any autocrat to silence their opponents—their politics are wrong (from my point of view), so, I shall crack down on them for the good of the public.
- sunaookami 2y ago
  >an the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet Seems like the US propaganda against TikTok successfully worked. What a sad day. We should never encourage censoring social media and free speech. If a self-proclaimed liberal democracy can only win by censoring it is neither liberal nor a democracy.
  - NLPaep 2y ago
    It’s not free speech if the content distribution is purposefully weighted towards showing specific agendas
  - petre 2y ago
    Sure. A CCP linked Chinese company controls the narratives. So no Xi jokes on TikTok.
  - krapp 2y ago
    Pointing in the general direction of "communists" and shrieking like that guy at the end of Invasion of the Body Snatchers[0] has been an effective backdoor into the American zeitgeist for almost a century. It doesn't matter what rights need to be compromised, what morals undermined, what transgressions done, Americans will do anything, permit anything to quell the Red Menace, whatever form it takes. Only their collective fear of the Angry Black Man is more primal. [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo
- squigz 2y ago
  > an(d) the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet. And Twitter is a Western propaganda outlet.
petre 2y ago
No, this is China incited unrest. I wonder how long it takes to ban this crap in the EU after the US got its act together. EU officials are late to the party as usual.
- skyyler 2y ago
  Do you have any information about how China incited this unrest? It seems that there has been unrest for a number of years, since at least the 90s.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    Not China but Azerbaijan [0] in retaliation for French support of Armenia and Azeri dissidents. Azeri flags are very prominent in the protests and riots too [0] - https://www.politico.eu/article/france-accuse-azerbaijan-fomenting-deadly-riot-overseas-territory-new-caledonia/ https://www.politico.eu/article/france-accuse-azerbaijan-fom...
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - yvan-eht-nioj 2y ago
    I wonder if FLNKS is able to provide a detailed record of where their funding is coming from.

EA-3167 2y ago

Comparing Twitter back when the "Arab Spring" occurred to TikTok feels somewhat unfair, in that the former was often a pathway for journalists and human rights activists, an the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet. I'd also point out that the Arab Spring was a total failure, leading to nothing more or less than disruption, death, and either a return to the status quo ante, or something even worse.

zrn900 2y ago
> Comparing Twitter back when the "Arab Spring" occurred to TikTok feels somewhat unfair, in that the former was often a pathway for journalists and human rights activists, an the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet. Yeah, when social media helps the US regime change operations, it's 'free speech and democracy'. When it hurts them, it's 'CCP propaganda' - or whatever 'national enemy' that's being targeted at that point in time. What's amazing is how there are still people who use the word 'CCP' as if it was a scare word that would have any effect on the people from the global south. And actually even Europe.
- shitlord 2y ago
  The Global South includes the entire ASEAN trading bloc and India. At least two of these countries have territorial disputes with China. The influence and actions of the Chinese government matter quite a lot.
  - EA-3167 2y ago
    I've found that "The Global South" is really just a phrase used by a certain kind of person, trying to legitimize the notion of solidarity where none exists. Poverty is not solidarity, it's just poverty.
    - zrn900 2y ago
      If that helps you cope, go ahead. Meanwhile... https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/the-world-today/2024-02/stop-taking-global-south-granted https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/the-world-today/20... https://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/en/analyses/europe-and-the-global-south-how-to-gain-influence-and-credibility-in-a-complex-world/ https://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/en/analyses/europe-and-t...
  - zrn900 2y ago
    > At least two of these countries have territorial disputes with China. And the extent of those disputes is shooting water cannons at each other from ships. The worst thing that happens is the circus that India and China mount at the border by throwing stones to each other whenever Modi needs something to use for shoring up support in internal politics. At the exact same time they sign billions of dollars trade deals behind the doors...
    - shitlord 2y ago
      The worst things that happened so far don't seem so bad because everyone involved is trying to avoid escalation. The worst thing that can happen is full-blown warfare involving China, Taiwan, the Phillippines, India, smaller countries in the region, and allied countries (along with all of the impacts to global trade).
perihelions 2y ago
- "an the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet." I'm simply quoting the New Caledonian politician explaining his own motives in his own words, and he said it's "to stop protesters from "organizing reunions and protests"". So I think the parallel to 2011 is a solid one. - "I'd also point out that the Arab Spring was a total failure" I agree with Obama's well-chosen words: human rights are "universal", not consequentialist. "We should deny you freedom of political speech because your politics are a failure" is not a category of argumentation I can accept, if you see where I'm coming from here. That's a generic justification for any autocrat to silence their opponents—their politics are wrong (from my point of view), so, I shall crack down on them for the good of the public.
sunaookami 2y ago
>an the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet Seems like the US propaganda against TikTok successfully worked. What a sad day. We should never encourage censoring social media and free speech. If a self-proclaimed liberal democracy can only win by censoring it is neither liberal nor a democracy.
- NLPaep 2y ago
  It’s not free speech if the content distribution is purposefully weighted towards showing specific agendas
- petre 2y ago
  Sure. A CCP linked Chinese company controls the narratives. So no Xi jokes on TikTok.
- krapp 2y ago
  Pointing in the general direction of "communists" and shrieking like that guy at the end of Invasion of the Body Snatchers[0] has been an effective backdoor into the American zeitgeist for almost a century. It doesn't matter what rights need to be compromised, what morals undermined, what transgressions done, Americans will do anything, permit anything to quell the Red Menace, whatever form it takes. Only their collective fear of the Angry Black Man is more primal. [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo
squigz 2y ago
> an(d) the latter is a CCP propaganda outlet. And Twitter is a Western propaganda outlet.

petre 2y ago

No, this is China incited unrest. I wonder how long it takes to ban this crap in the EU after the US got its act together. EU officials are late to the party as usual.

skyyler 2y ago
Do you have any information about how China incited this unrest? It seems that there has been unrest for a number of years, since at least the 90s.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  Not China but Azerbaijan [0] in retaliation for French support of Armenia and Azeri dissidents. Azeri flags are very prominent in the protests and riots too [0] - https://www.politico.eu/article/france-accuse-azerbaijan-fomenting-deadly-riot-overseas-territory-new-caledonia/ https://www.politico.eu/article/france-accuse-azerbaijan-fom...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- yvan-eht-nioj 2y ago
  I wonder if FLNKS is able to provide a detailed record of where their funding is coming from.