8 ms·

Thunderbird.net Has a New Look

doublerabbit 2y ago
It's disappointing for that there is no FreeBSD release nor any easy way to find the source for that matter. Even within their github, there's no source of the client unless I'm missing something? https://github.com/orgs/thunderbird/repositories https://github.com/orgs/thunderbird/repositories Edit: Wow, to the down-voters you seriously hate FreeBSD that much that I cannot even state my opinion without yourselves needing to down-vote? Why? It is disappointing that we can't have another OS in the same realm as others and yet we have to keep the whole fanboi cliche going. It's ridiculous, we live in 2024 and yet still have this petty rivalry. If Thunderbird is able create packages for Snap, Debian, CentOS anything else Linux -- why can they not create packages for FreeBSD?
- tux3 2y ago
  The source is in Mercurial (like most code from Mozilla), not GitHub. There's instructions on developer.thunderbird.net.
  - doublerabbit 2y ago
    Great thanks.
- aprilnya 2y ago
  It seems that Thunderbird itself uses mercurial, not git: https://developer.thunderbird.net/thunderbird-development/getting-started https://developer.thunderbird.net/thunderbird-development/ge... But yeah, it is really weird that there isn’t really a way to find the source code (or this developer.thunderbird.net page) from the main site as far as I can tell
  - bitvoid 2y ago
    It's on the Contribute->Participate page.
    - aprilnya 2y ago
      Oh, I was looking at the blog site but assumed it’s the main page because I got there by clicking the logo and it had buttons like “download thunderbird”… my bad
      - 6031769 2y ago
        Not your bad at all. It is definitely their bad for having the logo link to the blog instead of the main page.
- mrpippy 2y ago
  It’s in FreeBSD ports, what’s wrong with that? https://www.freshports.org/mail/thunderbird/ https://www.freshports.org/mail/thunderbird/
  - doublerabbit 2y ago
    Nothing wrong, but why isn't the package listed upon Thunderbird's website, nor created officially when they do so for Linux?
    - prmoustache 2y ago
      From someone who complain abouy FreeBSD haters you seem very little informed on what is FreeBSD, how the project is organized and how people typically install software on it.
      - doublerabbit 2y ago
        I am well aware that I could do "pkg install thunderbird" or use ports. My own preference is to explore the repo and compile it from the repo itself. Do you have a problem with that?
        prmoustache 2y ago
        >My own preference is to explore the repo and compile it from the repo itself. Do you have a problem with that? You are shifting the goal post. You don't need a prepackaged FreeBSD release for that, you can pull the sources from mozilla's mercurial repo.
        doublerabbit 2y ago
        Not at all, reread my post. > It's disappointing for that there is no FreeBSD release nor any easy way to find the source for that matter. The point I'm making their were no packages for FreeBSD nor any easy listing of accessing the source. The GitHub repo I found, did not contain nor was I aware that Mozilla uses Mercurial. Precompiled packages exist for Linux, but not FreeBSD outside of the FreeBSD port system. Not even a mention.
- jcranmer 2y ago
  The source code is here: https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central, although you also need a checkout of https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central for the Gecko code. Also, Thunderbird does support FreeBSD, in that FreeBSD-specific bugs will be triaged and fixed, although it's obviously not a primary platform of support.
- prmoustache 2y ago
  Why should they bother making a specific release for FreeBSD if a port maintainer does the job well?
  - doublerabbit 2y ago
    Why should it be a job of a FreeBSD port maintainer and not Thunderbird maintaining the port?
    - prmoustache 2y ago
      Because that is the way the linux distros and BSD traditionnally package software and this is the most integrated way for the user who is just a small command away to get the software. Additionally it removes the burden of maintaining tens of operating system packages to the developers who can still decide to themselves be the maintainers if that is their wish or nobody else want to do it. A win-win situation. Do you prefer the users to look for software, figure out from themselves they are hitting the right website and not a fake clone with same software but with integrated malware, then to download them and install them with a terrible install process involving hitting next next next install while making sure to not let a checkbox checked that will had some adware like in old win9x days? BSD ports and curated linux software package repositories are the origins/ancestors of the "app" stores for good reasons. The later only add some voting systems and putting the burden of package maintenance on the software developers, remove curation and don't really prevent rogue mainteners to release malicious clones. I prefer the linux/BSD way.
      - doublerabbit 2y ago
        Yeah, I'm just saying that maybe Thunderbird should create their own package to ensure 100% is as they want it. Ports only gives myself a selection chosen by the packager, for example Chromium package does not have PulseAudio enabled. I had to recompile it myself to enable Pulse.
        prmoustache 2y ago
jamesboehmer 2y ago
In this day and age, why does Thunderbird still ask for my password to store locally instead of using a standard OAuth flow? Every time I consider using Thunderbird, I just can't bring myself to enter a password. It feels like such an antiquated violation and gaping security hole.
- Borealid 2y ago
  Thunderbird supports using TLS client certificates or Kerberos as alternatives to a password for IMAP access. When you do choose to store a password locally, it's stored encrypted using a second password of your choice. Since the end result of an OAuth login is a "token" (password...) stored on your machine, I think the difference is pretty marginal either way. But I do hear they're working on OAuth-for-IMAP support. If it were more standardized they probably would have implemented it sooner.
- Hakkin 2y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean, I just added a new Gmail account to test and it went through the normal OAuth flow. I didn't have to enter any password into Thunderbird itself, just the Gmail OAuth popup.
  - vdfs 2y ago
    An other problem I have is when setting a master password, it doesn't use Linux PAM to re-use login session password
    - qzw 2y ago
      On the other hand, I want the Thunderbird master password to be distinct from my login password. It probably should be a configurable option.
- Macha 2y ago
  Some email providers support oauth. For some of those (Microsoft and Google), Thunderbird does support the oauth flow. However, how you connect oauth to email is not really standardised, so my understanding is even though "it's all oauth", these implementations are a lot more vendor specific than you'd expect. Also the need for the email client to have a relationship with the oauth provider is probably a discouragement for some of the smaller email providers to move to oauth.
einpoklum 2y ago
It's too bad that Thunderbird's UI keeps getting gradually worse, with functionality lost, in newer releases. I don't feel comforted by a website revamp. (And that's not getting into TB's internal dynamics, which are super problematic.)
- dugite-code 2y ago
  What functionality are you missing? All the old menu's are available if you really want them as far as I am aware, just hidden be default.
  - pmontra 2y ago
    They broke Manually Sort Folders [1] with TB 115. That's a big downside for me but what can I use instead of Thunderbird? I worked around that issue by sticking some folders to the top of the list using Favorites. It's 1% of MSF functionality but at least I finally used Favorites. [1] https://github.com/protz/Manually-Sort-Folders/issues/199 https://github.com/protz/Manually-Sort-Folders/issues/199
  - laurent123456 2y ago
    One example is the calendar that keeps getting worse release after release, so much that I had to switch to macOS calendar. Global Inbox also got broken several years ago and never fixed, since it seems all their energy goes into making things prettier at the expense of making things work.
    - einpoklum 2y ago
      > making things prettier And even that is a matter of taste. They tend to make things resemble some combination of an Android app aesthetic and a Google Chrome aesthetic. For example, replacing dialogs with item hierarchy trees with a scrollable flat web-form-like preferences page. At least they backed out of the switch to monochrome folder icons. 8-\
  - einpoklum 2y ago
    1. There's no longer a proper toolbar for the main window. (You can sorta-kinda get something that's like it - but not quite, and it is extension-hostile, i.e. won't let you overlay it). This is doubly problematic with the menu bar being hidden. 2. No multi-folder selection. This is necessary for actions involving multiple folders - from a simple move to extension-enabled actions like "Search these folders for duplicate messages")
crossroadsguy 2y ago
If any Thunderbird dev is here please bring the "Customise From Address" to the mobile. It's a god-mode feature (probably nowhere else) for battling spam and truly utilising catch-all for personal domain based emails. PS. Also, any ETA for iOS? Alpha? Beta?
- dugite-code 2y ago
  > please bring the "Customise From Address" to the mobile. It's a very old issue that appears to be terribly misunderstood at this point, unfortunately the issue on github is currently locked https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbird-android/issues/935 https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbird-android/issues/93...
  - beeboobaa3 2y ago
    > locked as off-topic and limited conversation to collaborators Companies that do this to their github projects want fans of their product to go away and stop bothering them. I wasn't aware that Mozilla was one of them, but it doesn't really surprise me.
    - kibwen 2y ago
      Mozilla hasn't been involved in Thunderbird development for years. They just provide legal and financial backing to Thunderbird via a subsidiary named MZLA. Development is all from the community at this point.
    - oooyay 2y ago
      Opinions of Mozilla aside; the reason maintainers do this is because people google bugs or "why can't I do this in x" and they land on GitHub issues. They then pepper those issues with either low-tier comments like "zomg +1 op" or totally unrelated comments. GitHub doesn't have a way to differentiate a random Internet user who arrived on a big through an internet search and someone who is a long time user but not a contributor. This, lock to maintainers happens once you know the cause, effect, and what it takes to fix it.
jchw 2y ago
Been using Thunderbird for a few years after using mostly webmail and it has been a mostly good experience. The UI revamps have definitely split the room somewhat, but honestly, Thunderbird's UI progression feels much better than Firefox's, and I have actually gotten used to the way Thunderbird looks and functions without too much pain. The information density is still generally alright, the tabs look like tabs, etc. The only thing that really tripped me up is the inconsistent hierarchy between the tabs and the sidebar, and I am not really that torn up about it, to be honest. What I really think Thunderbird could use is account sync. For me on NixOS (how do you know if somebody uses NixOS? Don't worry, they'll tell you) I might just set up some secret data in SOPS and have an activation script ensure the accounts are all present, and then IMAP can take care of the rest. But for the general user, and maybe even still me, Firefox Sync support for accounts and extensions and more would be amazing. Speaking of IMAP, JMAP support is another thing I'd love to see.
- cpmsmith 2y ago
  I believe account sync is among their higher priorities: https://blog.thunderbird.net/tag/thunderbird-sync/ https://blog.thunderbird.net/tag/thunderbird-sync/
  - jchw 2y ago
    I am aware, since I was looking forward to it in 115. Unfortunately, I kind of suspect it might not really be on the way, as last time I looked into it it seemed like it was in a bad state. I guess it's not a big deal, though.
- animaomnium 2y ago
  "on NixOS" is the new "arch btw"
  - jchw 2y ago
    There is one difference. Arch users will tell you, "I use Arch. You should try it." and NixOS users will tell you, "I use NixOS. You should probably not try it. You should try Arch."
BadHumans 2y ago
The new website looks like every startup website I've seen since the start of the 2020s.
- ljm 2y ago
  And the header links back to the blog, not the main website.
  - imperialdrive 2y ago
    #1 annoying thing for me after landing on a blog... Never figured out why a company would make it so hard to see the actual product for new users. I can't imagine how many potential customers are lost that way.
- mardifoufs 2y ago
  And the older versions looked like every website of their era too. Back in 2011 with the "floaty" design (as I can't seem to figure out the real design term) and in 2015 with the material 1.0 design. That's normal! That's how websites usually work especially when they are mostly portals for the actual product, not the product itself ;). I really like the new design, much better than the sort of material 1.0 flatness it used to have.
culi 2y ago
Since no one's posted it yet, here's what it used to look like 2017: https://archive.ph/YNAQP https://archive.ph/YNAQP 2023: https://web.archive.org/web/20230420163425/https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230420163425/https://www.thund... 2024: https://www.thunderbird.net/ https://www.thunderbird.net/
- ffsm8 2y ago
  What a funny experience! I started with 2024, continuing with 2023, ending with 2017. Each time it took significantly less time to open and render the page. I didn't check why that happened though, might just be because archive.ph has less load the archive.org etc, but it was extremely noticeable
  - KomoD 2y ago
    Yes, archive.org is really slow. Also: live site and archive.org both load the JS, archive.ph does not. here's all of them at archive.ph: 2024: https://archive.ph/t2az0 https://archive.ph/t2az0 2023: https://archive.ph/Zy43I https://archive.ph/Zy43I 2017: https://archive.ph/YNAQP https://archive.ph/YNAQP
- OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago
  "Make Email Easier" grabs me. "Free Your Inbox" doesn't. What's all this "Freedoms" razzmatazz? I hear that term a lot but usually from a certain corner of the political spectrum that I treat with extreme skepticism.
qiller 2y ago
Love that Thunderbird is moving forward. The UX work is great, and looks like they are finally getting to some more deeply buried issues too, like https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=479969 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=479969 - my main reason why I can't switch fully back yet
- fgonzag 2y ago
  Have you checked betterbird? It's thunderbird with qol bug fixes and features.
6031769 2y ago
The page starts off with light text on a dark background, then as you scroll down it switches to dark text on a light background and then as you keep scrolling it switches back again! It's impressive to find a page which will irritate both the dark-mode and light-mode users in equal measure. Well done, Mozilla.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago
Longtime Thunderbird user. I prefer the old interface and so I've selected that. I wish I could compose a message or a reply in a tab. I often have to click away from the compose window and finding it again is less convenient than it could be (I'm on a Mac.) Lots of people want it, it's been an open bug/feature request since 2008 [0] and yet this is ignored in favor of other UX cruft and website PR. I don't get the importance of announcing a website redesign. Doesn't look like it would convince anyone to try it. [0] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=449299 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=449299
nurple 2y ago
I really wish I could donate to the project without giving them my full details. Why if I send you a couple bucks with paypal do I need to provide my address? PayPal does all the payment validation... Has thunderbird started doing what Firefox does and categorize your emails to send those stats back to Mozilla corp? If so, or it's in their plans, I guess that would be a reason they may want all my data. I was happy that thunderbird was abandonware, the protocols haven't changed in the decade since I started using it, and it kept Mozilla from bloating it like FF and seeking profit motives. I may just move back to roundcube.

It's disappointing for that there is no FreeBSD release nor any easy way to find the source for that matter. Even within their github, there's no source of the client unless I'm missing something? https://github.com/orgs/thunderbird/repositories https://github.com/orgs/thunderbird/repositories Edit: Wow, to the down-voters you seriously hate FreeBSD that much that I cannot even state my opinion without yourselves needing to down-vote? Why? It is disappointing that we can't have another OS in the same realm as others and yet we have to keep the whole fanboi cliche going. It's ridiculous, we live in 2024 and yet still have this petty rivalry. If Thunderbird is able create packages for Snap, Debian, CentOS anything else Linux -- why can they not create packages for FreeBSD?

tux3 2y ago
The source is in Mercurial (like most code from Mozilla), not GitHub. There's instructions on developer.thunderbird.net.
- doublerabbit 2y ago
  Great thanks.
aprilnya 2y ago
It seems that Thunderbird itself uses mercurial, not git: https://developer.thunderbird.net/thunderbird-development/getting-started https://developer.thunderbird.net/thunderbird-development/ge... But yeah, it is really weird that there isn’t really a way to find the source code (or this developer.thunderbird.net page) from the main site as far as I can tell
- bitvoid 2y ago
  It's on the Contribute->Participate page.
  - aprilnya 2y ago
    Oh, I was looking at the blog site but assumed it’s the main page because I got there by clicking the logo and it had buttons like “download thunderbird”… my bad
    - 6031769 2y ago
      Not your bad at all. It is definitely their bad for having the logo link to the blog instead of the main page.
mrpippy 2y ago
It’s in FreeBSD ports, what’s wrong with that? https://www.freshports.org/mail/thunderbird/ https://www.freshports.org/mail/thunderbird/
- doublerabbit 2y ago
  Nothing wrong, but why isn't the package listed upon Thunderbird's website, nor created officially when they do so for Linux?
  - prmoustache 2y ago
    From someone who complain abouy FreeBSD haters you seem very little informed on what is FreeBSD, how the project is organized and how people typically install software on it.
    - doublerabbit 2y ago
      I am well aware that I could do "pkg install thunderbird" or use ports. My own preference is to explore the repo and compile it from the repo itself. Do you have a problem with that?
      - prmoustache 2y ago
        >My own preference is to explore the repo and compile it from the repo itself. Do you have a problem with that? You are shifting the goal post. You don't need a prepackaged FreeBSD release for that, you can pull the sources from mozilla's mercurial repo.
        doublerabbit 2y ago
        Not at all, reread my post. > It's disappointing for that there is no FreeBSD release nor any easy way to find the source for that matter. The point I'm making their were no packages for FreeBSD nor any easy listing of accessing the source. The GitHub repo I found, did not contain nor was I aware that Mozilla uses Mercurial. Precompiled packages exist for Linux, but not FreeBSD outside of the FreeBSD port system. Not even a mention.
jcranmer 2y ago
The source code is here: https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central, although you also need a checkout of https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central for the Gecko code. Also, Thunderbird does support FreeBSD, in that FreeBSD-specific bugs will be triaged and fixed, although it's obviously not a primary platform of support.
prmoustache 2y ago
Why should they bother making a specific release for FreeBSD if a port maintainer does the job well?
- doublerabbit 2y ago
  Why should it be a job of a FreeBSD port maintainer and not Thunderbird maintaining the port?
  - prmoustache 2y ago
    Because that is the way the linux distros and BSD traditionnally package software and this is the most integrated way for the user who is just a small command away to get the software. Additionally it removes the burden of maintaining tens of operating system packages to the developers who can still decide to themselves be the maintainers if that is their wish or nobody else want to do it. A win-win situation. Do you prefer the users to look for software, figure out from themselves they are hitting the right website and not a fake clone with same software but with integrated malware, then to download them and install them with a terrible install process involving hitting next next next install while making sure to not let a checkbox checked that will had some adware like in old win9x days? BSD ports and curated linux software package repositories are the origins/ancestors of the "app" stores for good reasons. The later only add some voting systems and putting the burden of package maintenance on the software developers, remove curation and don't really prevent rogue mainteners to release malicious clones. I prefer the linux/BSD way.
    - doublerabbit 2y ago
      Yeah, I'm just saying that maybe Thunderbird should create their own package to ensure 100% is as they want it. Ports only gives myself a selection chosen by the packager, for example Chromium package does not have PulseAudio enabled. I had to recompile it myself to enable Pulse.
      - prmoustache 2y ago

jamesboehmer 2y ago

In this day and age, why does Thunderbird still ask for my password to store locally instead of using a standard OAuth flow? Every time I consider using Thunderbird, I just can't bring myself to enter a password. It feels like such an antiquated violation and gaping security hole.

Borealid 2y ago
Thunderbird supports using TLS client certificates or Kerberos as alternatives to a password for IMAP access. When you do choose to store a password locally, it's stored encrypted using a second password of your choice. Since the end result of an OAuth login is a "token" (password...) stored on your machine, I think the difference is pretty marginal either way. But I do hear they're working on OAuth-for-IMAP support. If it were more standardized they probably would have implemented it sooner.
Hakkin 2y ago
I'm not sure what you mean, I just added a new Gmail account to test and it went through the normal OAuth flow. I didn't have to enter any password into Thunderbird itself, just the Gmail OAuth popup.
- vdfs 2y ago
  An other problem I have is when setting a master password, it doesn't use Linux PAM to re-use login session password
  - qzw 2y ago
    On the other hand, I want the Thunderbird master password to be distinct from my login password. It probably should be a configurable option.
Macha 2y ago
Some email providers support oauth. For some of those (Microsoft and Google), Thunderbird does support the oauth flow. However, how you connect oauth to email is not really standardised, so my understanding is even though "it's all oauth", these implementations are a lot more vendor specific than you'd expect. Also the need for the email client to have a relationship with the oauth provider is probably a discouragement for some of the smaller email providers to move to oauth.

einpoklum 2y ago

It's too bad that Thunderbird's UI keeps getting gradually worse, with functionality lost, in newer releases. I don't feel comforted by a website revamp. (And that's not getting into TB's internal dynamics, which are super problematic.)

dugite-code 2y ago
What functionality are you missing? All the old menu's are available if you really want them as far as I am aware, just hidden be default.
- pmontra 2y ago
  They broke Manually Sort Folders [1] with TB 115. That's a big downside for me but what can I use instead of Thunderbird? I worked around that issue by sticking some folders to the top of the list using Favorites. It's 1% of MSF functionality but at least I finally used Favorites. [1] https://github.com/protz/Manually-Sort-Folders/issues/199 https://github.com/protz/Manually-Sort-Folders/issues/199
- laurent123456 2y ago
  One example is the calendar that keeps getting worse release after release, so much that I had to switch to macOS calendar. Global Inbox also got broken several years ago and never fixed, since it seems all their energy goes into making things prettier at the expense of making things work.
  - einpoklum 2y ago
    > making things prettier And even that is a matter of taste. They tend to make things resemble some combination of an Android app aesthetic and a Google Chrome aesthetic. For example, replacing dialogs with item hierarchy trees with a scrollable flat web-form-like preferences page. At least they backed out of the switch to monochrome folder icons. 8-\
- einpoklum 2y ago
  1. There's no longer a proper toolbar for the main window. (You can sorta-kinda get something that's like it - but not quite, and it is extension-hostile, i.e. won't let you overlay it). This is doubly problematic with the menu bar being hidden. 2. No multi-folder selection. This is necessary for actions involving multiple folders - from a simple move to extension-enabled actions like "Search these folders for duplicate messages")

crossroadsguy 2y ago

If any Thunderbird dev is here please bring the "Customise From Address" to the mobile. It's a god-mode feature (probably nowhere else) for battling spam and truly utilising catch-all for personal domain based emails. PS. Also, any ETA for iOS? Alpha? Beta?

dugite-code 2y ago
> please bring the "Customise From Address" to the mobile. It's a very old issue that appears to be terribly misunderstood at this point, unfortunately the issue on github is currently locked https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbird-android/issues/935 https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbird-android/issues/93...
- beeboobaa3 2y ago
  > locked as off-topic and limited conversation to collaborators Companies that do this to their github projects want fans of their product to go away and stop bothering them. I wasn't aware that Mozilla was one of them, but it doesn't really surprise me.
  - kibwen 2y ago
    Mozilla hasn't been involved in Thunderbird development for years. They just provide legal and financial backing to Thunderbird via a subsidiary named MZLA. Development is all from the community at this point.
  - oooyay 2y ago
    Opinions of Mozilla aside; the reason maintainers do this is because people google bugs or "why can't I do this in x" and they land on GitHub issues. They then pepper those issues with either low-tier comments like "zomg +1 op" or totally unrelated comments. GitHub doesn't have a way to differentiate a random Internet user who arrived on a big through an internet search and someone who is a long time user but not a contributor. This, lock to maintainers happens once you know the cause, effect, and what it takes to fix it.

jchw 2y ago

Been using Thunderbird for a few years after using mostly webmail and it has been a mostly good experience. The UI revamps have definitely split the room somewhat, but honestly, Thunderbird's UI progression feels much better than Firefox's, and I have actually gotten used to the way Thunderbird looks and functions without too much pain. The information density is still generally alright, the tabs look like tabs, etc. The only thing that really tripped me up is the inconsistent hierarchy between the tabs and the sidebar, and I am not really that torn up about it, to be honest. What I really think Thunderbird could use is account sync. For me on NixOS (how do you know if somebody uses NixOS? Don't worry, they'll tell you) I might just set up some secret data in SOPS and have an activation script ensure the accounts are all present, and then IMAP can take care of the rest. But for the general user, and maybe even still me, Firefox Sync support for accounts and extensions and more would be amazing. Speaking of IMAP, JMAP support is another thing I'd love to see.

cpmsmith 2y ago
I believe account sync is among their higher priorities: https://blog.thunderbird.net/tag/thunderbird-sync/ https://blog.thunderbird.net/tag/thunderbird-sync/
- jchw 2y ago
  I am aware, since I was looking forward to it in 115. Unfortunately, I kind of suspect it might not really be on the way, as last time I looked into it it seemed like it was in a bad state. I guess it's not a big deal, though.
animaomnium 2y ago
"on NixOS" is the new "arch btw"
- jchw 2y ago
  There is one difference. Arch users will tell you, "I use Arch. You should try it." and NixOS users will tell you, "I use NixOS. You should probably not try it. You should try Arch."

BadHumans 2y ago

The new website looks like every startup website I've seen since the start of the 2020s.

ljm 2y ago
And the header links back to the blog, not the main website.
- imperialdrive 2y ago
  #1 annoying thing for me after landing on a blog... Never figured out why a company would make it so hard to see the actual product for new users. I can't imagine how many potential customers are lost that way.
mardifoufs 2y ago
And the older versions looked like every website of their era too. Back in 2011 with the "floaty" design (as I can't seem to figure out the real design term) and in 2015 with the material 1.0 design. That's normal! That's how websites usually work especially when they are mostly portals for the actual product, not the product itself ;). I really like the new design, much better than the sort of material 1.0 flatness it used to have.

culi 2y ago

Since no one's posted it yet, here's what it used to look like 2017: https://archive.ph/YNAQP https://archive.ph/YNAQP 2023: https://web.archive.org/web/20230420163425/https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230420163425/https://www.thund... 2024: https://www.thunderbird.net/ https://www.thunderbird.net/

ffsm8 2y ago
What a funny experience! I started with 2024, continuing with 2023, ending with 2017. Each time it took significantly less time to open and render the page. I didn't check why that happened though, might just be because archive.ph has less load the archive.org etc, but it was extremely noticeable
- KomoD 2y ago
  Yes, archive.org is really slow. Also: live site and archive.org both load the JS, archive.ph does not. here's all of them at archive.ph: 2024: https://archive.ph/t2az0 https://archive.ph/t2az0 2023: https://archive.ph/Zy43I https://archive.ph/Zy43I 2017: https://archive.ph/YNAQP https://archive.ph/YNAQP
OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago
"Make Email Easier" grabs me. "Free Your Inbox" doesn't. What's all this "Freedoms" razzmatazz? I hear that term a lot but usually from a certain corner of the political spectrum that I treat with extreme skepticism.

qiller 2y ago

Love that Thunderbird is moving forward. The UX work is great, and looks like they are finally getting to some more deeply buried issues too, like https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=479969 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=479969 - my main reason why I can't switch fully back yet

fgonzag 2y ago
Have you checked betterbird? It's thunderbird with qol bug fixes and features.

6031769 2y ago

The page starts off with light text on a dark background, then as you scroll down it switches to dark text on a light background and then as you keep scrolling it switches back again! It's impressive to find a page which will irritate both the dark-mode and light-mode users in equal measure. Well done, Mozilla.

deleted 2y ago

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OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago

Longtime Thunderbird user. I prefer the old interface and so I've selected that. I wish I could compose a message or a reply in a tab. I often have to click away from the compose window and finding it again is less convenient than it could be (I'm on a Mac.) Lots of people want it, it's been an open bug/feature request since 2008 [0] and yet this is ignored in favor of other UX cruft and website PR. I don't get the importance of announcing a website redesign. Doesn't look like it would convince anyone to try it. [0] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=449299 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=449299

nurple 2y ago

I really wish I could donate to the project without giving them my full details. Why if I send you a couple bucks with paypal do I need to provide my address? PayPal does all the payment validation... Has thunderbird started doing what Firefox does and categorize your emails to send those stats back to Mozilla corp? If so, or it's in their plans, I guess that would be a reason they may want all my data. I was happy that thunderbird was abandonware, the protocols haven't changed in the decade since I started using it, and it kept Mozilla from bloating it like FF and seeking profit motives. I may just move back to roundcube.