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I don't think they'll tap any market but motorcycle drivers. The cost -- even their lowered "target" cost of 16k -- will put you in a car of sorts (either a cit

I don't think they'll tap any market but motorcycle drivers. The cost -- even their lowered "target" cost of 16k -- will put you in a car of sorts (either a city car or a used one). I sincerely doubt anyone who can afford a four-wheeled alternative would consider this. It's just too small and too dangerous. Also, the gyroscopes will keep you upright even if you're hit? Yeah right. Let's see how that works out when an SUV hits you at 60. If it were way cooler -- and remember a Ducati, BWM, or just about any premium bike can be had for under 16k already -- I might consider it as a motorcycle driver. But like the OP said I would feel less safe in it because it's lower to the ground and has much less visibility.

ajross 14y ago
You're not controlling variables. Of course you won't sell these into the existing market. But the existing market is unsustainable (fuel costs alone would change your calculus about "same cost as a car" today), so what will you sell in the future? Bikes, or these? I know what I'd buy. And I don't see anywhere where it claimed that the gyros would work in a collision that would destroy the vehicle; that's silly. The point is they won't tip over in a fender bender.
- mbenjaminsmith 14y ago
  In what future will the two transportation choices be motorcycles and covered motorcycles? On a more serious note, how is the current market unsustainable? Even if something as specious as "Peak Oil" were true, it's well within our power to move to another fuel source. And since when does fuel availability dictate personal vehicle design? If we can make any personal vehicle, certainly we can make one with four wheels and room for passengers and groceries?
  - ajross 14y ago
    At-the-pump gasoline prices have been moving steadily, inexorably upward for the past 13 years. It's not even news any more when we hit new record prices; it happens every summer. You really think that trend is going to halt any time soon? A median car in the USA is now less expensive than the fuel it will consume (and outside the USA, of course, fuel is a much greater fraction). You think that constraint won't "dicate personal vehicle design" in the future? I don't need "peak oil" theories to make this argument, just simple facts you can google for yourself. (And the bit about the choice being "only" two wheelers is a strawman; please don't do that. I said it was a "reasonable commute vehicle", it was you that wanted to make an argument about whether it competes with a bike.)
    - InclinedPlane 14y ago
      "Inexorably". Yes. Now, if we believed that any consistent trend over a period of about a decade would last forever, where would we all be? Buying multi-million dollar 2-bedroom homes in Detroit with our pets.com investment proceeds, I'd imagine.
      - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
        but... because pets can't drive... your argument is invalid. LOL
      - ajross 14y ago
        Your point being what, that there's a speculative boom in petroleum prices? It's a finite resource with a growing demand. Seems like my argument requires less in the way of elaborate justification. I don't expect to convince you of anything. So: write it down. In 2012 you thought $4 gas was going to stop getting more expensive. In 2014 when it hits $5, you'll probably think similarly. At $10, maybe you're change your mind. And if you've written it down you'll hopefully avoid this kind of mistake in the future. People like you have been predicting cheaper gas right around the corner since 2003. They haven't been right yet.
        InclinedPlane 14y ago
        For most of the 90s gas was underpriced compared to historical levels. This was due to a variety of reasons, some technological, some economic, some geopolitical. Over the last decade or so gas has gone up in price though the price is still quite volatile. Short-term estimates are that gas prices probably won't go much higher. Longer-term estimates are tricky, but increasing production of crude oil and natural gas from North America will probably cause prices to fall. The "finite resource" aspect is a bit of a misnomer. Yes, oil is finite, and it is used up. But what matters is how long can current rates of use be maintained. If it's only a decade then prices will definitely skyrocket, if it's more like a century then prices might not outpace inflation. I could argue all day about technology and production but the best argument is the simplest one, more often than not the claim that "this time it's different" is seldom justified. What argument do you have that "this time it's different" in regard to cost and volume of oil production vs, say, the 1970s? People like you have been arguing that we're going to run out of oil since the 1950s. They haven't been right yet.

ajross 14y ago

You're not controlling variables. Of course you won't sell these into the existing market. But the existing market is unsustainable (fuel costs alone would change your calculus about "same cost as a car" today), so what will you sell in the future? Bikes, or these? I know what I'd buy. And I don't see anywhere where it claimed that the gyros would work in a collision that would destroy the vehicle; that's silly. The point is they won't tip over in a fender bender.

mbenjaminsmith 14y ago
In what future will the two transportation choices be motorcycles and covered motorcycles? On a more serious note, how is the current market unsustainable? Even if something as specious as "Peak Oil" were true, it's well within our power to move to another fuel source. And since when does fuel availability dictate personal vehicle design? If we can make any personal vehicle, certainly we can make one with four wheels and room for passengers and groceries?
- ajross 14y ago
  At-the-pump gasoline prices have been moving steadily, inexorably upward for the past 13 years. It's not even news any more when we hit new record prices; it happens every summer. You really think that trend is going to halt any time soon? A median car in the USA is now less expensive than the fuel it will consume (and outside the USA, of course, fuel is a much greater fraction). You think that constraint won't "dicate personal vehicle design" in the future? I don't need "peak oil" theories to make this argument, just simple facts you can google for yourself. (And the bit about the choice being "only" two wheelers is a strawman; please don't do that. I said it was a "reasonable commute vehicle", it was you that wanted to make an argument about whether it competes with a bike.)
  - InclinedPlane 14y ago
    "Inexorably". Yes. Now, if we believed that any consistent trend over a period of about a decade would last forever, where would we all be? Buying multi-million dollar 2-bedroom homes in Detroit with our pets.com investment proceeds, I'd imagine.
    - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
      but... because pets can't drive... your argument is invalid. LOL
    - ajross 14y ago
      Your point being what, that there's a speculative boom in petroleum prices? It's a finite resource with a growing demand. Seems like my argument requires less in the way of elaborate justification. I don't expect to convince you of anything. So: write it down. In 2012 you thought $4 gas was going to stop getting more expensive. In 2014 when it hits $5, you'll probably think similarly. At $10, maybe you're change your mind. And if you've written it down you'll hopefully avoid this kind of mistake in the future. People like you have been predicting cheaper gas right around the corner since 2003. They haven't been right yet.
      - InclinedPlane 14y ago
        For most of the 90s gas was underpriced compared to historical levels. This was due to a variety of reasons, some technological, some economic, some geopolitical. Over the last decade or so gas has gone up in price though the price is still quite volatile. Short-term estimates are that gas prices probably won't go much higher. Longer-term estimates are tricky, but increasing production of crude oil and natural gas from North America will probably cause prices to fall. The "finite resource" aspect is a bit of a misnomer. Yes, oil is finite, and it is used up. But what matters is how long can current rates of use be maintained. If it's only a decade then prices will definitely skyrocket, if it's more like a century then prices might not outpace inflation. I could argue all day about technology and production but the best argument is the simplest one, more often than not the claim that "this time it's different" is seldom justified. What argument do you have that "this time it's different" in regard to cost and volume of oil production vs, say, the 1970s? People like you have been arguing that we're going to run out of oil since the 1950s. They haven't been right yet.