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I suspect the 6 story and shorter buildings will end up having an alternative design where the stairwell and possibly certain walls are concrete, poured around

I suspect the 6 story and shorter buildings will end up having an alternative design where the stairwell and possibly certain walls are concrete, poured around the same time as the foundation, but the remaining structure is engineered timber. The challenge is going to be convincing fire departments and insurance agencies that theyre safe enough to not prevent.

indrora 2y ago
Ascent building in Milwaukee, Wisconsin is doing a lot to challenge the attitudes against Timber: https://www.dezeen.com/2022/08/03/ascent-tower-milwaukee-worlds-tallest-timber-building/ https://www.dezeen.com/2022/08/03/ascent-tower-milwaukee-wor... There's a fantastic article about the challenges here: https://www.enr.com/articles/50905-milwaukees-25-story-ascent-stacks-up-as-tall-timber-role-model https://www.enr.com/articles/50905-milwaukees-25-story-ascen... tl;dr: Insurance companies might be hesitant but it's often a matter of getting the right signoffs. Change may well be on the horizon, however.
- sgerenser 2y ago
  That’s a cool looking building, but I have to imagine that amount of glass must mean very high heating and cooling bills. Hope they at least installed efficient heat pumps.
lokar 2y ago
Ugh. Fire departments, not generally staffed or lead by engineers…
rtpg 2y ago
Would metal stairwells be too costly? Seems to me like it might be an easier construction job (especially with some standardized heights)
- pjc50 2y ago
  It's much easier to pour concrete than do all that welding, and steel is not as fire resistant as you might expect.
  - rtpg 2y ago
    I was just thinking of bolts. I mean we're talking about the staircase right, not the part of the building that actually holds up the entire structure. But I might be vastly overestimating this. My previous appartment was in a 3-story building, and my impression was that the entire staircase was bolted together (and it was on the outside of the building).
    - dredmorbius 2y ago
      It's less that stairwells need to support the structure than that stairwells need to survive the destruction of the structure, something concrete does remarkably well. Not turning into an oven is another feature. Heat conductivity of concrete is far lower than that of steel.
sgerenser 2y ago
Isn’t this already how 5-over-1[1] apartment/condo buildings are constructed in the U.S.? [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-over-1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-over-1

indrora 2y ago

Ascent building in Milwaukee, Wisconsin is doing a lot to challenge the attitudes against Timber: https://www.dezeen.com/2022/08/03/ascent-tower-milwaukee-worlds-tallest-timber-building/ https://www.dezeen.com/2022/08/03/ascent-tower-milwaukee-wor... There's a fantastic article about the challenges here: https://www.enr.com/articles/50905-milwaukees-25-story-ascent-stacks-up-as-tall-timber-role-model https://www.enr.com/articles/50905-milwaukees-25-story-ascen... tl;dr: Insurance companies might be hesitant but it's often a matter of getting the right signoffs. Change may well be on the horizon, however.

sgerenser 2y ago
That’s a cool looking building, but I have to imagine that amount of glass must mean very high heating and cooling bills. Hope they at least installed efficient heat pumps.

lokar 2y ago

Ugh. Fire departments, not generally staffed or lead by engineers…

rtpg 2y ago

Would metal stairwells be too costly? Seems to me like it might be an easier construction job (especially with some standardized heights)

pjc50 2y ago
It's much easier to pour concrete than do all that welding, and steel is not as fire resistant as you might expect.
- rtpg 2y ago
  I was just thinking of bolts. I mean we're talking about the staircase right, not the part of the building that actually holds up the entire structure. But I might be vastly overestimating this. My previous appartment was in a 3-story building, and my impression was that the entire staircase was bolted together (and it was on the outside of the building).
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    It's less that stairwells need to support the structure than that stairwells need to survive the destruction of the structure, something concrete does remarkably well. Not turning into an oven is another feature. Heat conductivity of concrete is far lower than that of steel.

sgerenser 2y ago

Isn’t this already how 5-over-1[1] apartment/condo buildings are constructed in the U.S.? [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-over-1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-over-1