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As a father with a son with severe autism (not to suggest it's equivalent to Bertrand's condition), there is an important lesson here that might not be apparent

• edwinnathaniel 14y ago
  This important lesson can only be detected by parents. People with no children won't ever understand this no matter how hard they try/re-read the articles many times. Once the infant is out of the womb, everything change instantly without any interference by anyone, anybody, or anything else. The child will change your brain, your mind, your heart, your lifestyle, and your future at that moment of birth. The child IS that BIG. I cannot say how much I respect parents, even more for those who have children with special needs. Life is really beautiful isn't it? (^_^).
  • deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  • Havoc 14y ago
    >People with no children won't ever understand this no matter how hard they try/re-read the articles many times. Halfway through the article I started re-evaluating whether I still want kids. Not sure I could carry that burden. [] Though that is probably more on a logical level than feeling the raw emotion that a parent would - which is probably what you were getting at. More accurately I know I could out of necessity carry that burden. Its everything else in life which would be more difficult. Kinda like a warrior without family at home has the luxury of adopting a devil-may-care attitude to combat - once others depend on him that isn't possible anymore.
    • edwinnathaniel 14y ago
      What I found was that once you have kids, it doesn't matter what you feel any more: you will somehow have extra strength to carry the burden no matter what. Life will change, and everything will never be the same any more. Just like moving from childhood to teenager to adulthood. Whatever you think you can't do before, you will do it eventually. Whatever you think was great, isn't any more. If you think building a successful billion dollars company was cool, is not any more but instead running a mISV building specific desktop Windows application or Nokia S40 mobile app. Suddenly, your priorities change without even a slight of internal struggle (no more "NO, I insist I want to become X"). It just... happened. Matt is a CS prof that blog and still have time to explore various technology despite the challenges he is currently facing. Life... is what you make it.
  • lotharbot 14y ago
    One way I like to explain this to non-parents: when you get married, it changes the way you relate to your spouse, to their relatives, and to others who used to be "dating prospects" -- so, maybe 1/10 of the people you come in contact with. That's a pretty big deal. when you have a child, it changes the way you relate to almost everybody, even people you've known your entire life. Your parents become "grandma" and "grandpa"; your siblings become "aunt" and "uncle". Even you become "daddy" or "mommy". Your friends are no longer just people you hang out with, they're people who influence your child. Every decision you make now gets framed in terms of "how does this affect my kid?" It's an order of magnitude bigger than marriage. Nobody is ever really ready for it, but most of us figure it out. And I think it's totally worth all the struggle. (My mildly autistic 2 year old just drew a letter F with sidewalk chalk, on purpose, and it made my day!)
• altrego99 14y ago
  Sorry, not worth it at all. Years 1-10 - you will loose all your time - cleaning diapers, making the child eat, making it study, teaching it values - waking up at night - and doing a lot of things for it. Yes you'll see it learn, smile, grow up and you're genetically conditioned to like it. But you will not be able to play your games, go to your parties - read book or contemplate on life, or code without expecting interruptions. Years 11-20 - manage the child's other needs - worry about getting into a good school/college, making sure there is no bad company, and making sure no bad mistakes are made which can be made very difficult due to teenage defiance to old values etc. Years 21+ - child will leave and stay separately - you should more or less start becoming free once again. That is if you do not have a second child!
  • celticninja 14y ago
    Wow your kids must suck.
  • mgoulart 14y ago
    Is that what your parents told you ? :)
    • deleted 14y ago
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  • mcmatterson 14y ago
    Balls to this. As your sibling commenter says, you simply don't get to pass judgement on this if you haven't had a child of your own. Sure, we're programmed to behave with an otherwise inexcusable amount of irrationality with our kids, but that's not by accident. If anything, it demonstrates the level of evolutionary importance in keeping our offspring healthy and ensuring their success: it's such an important directive in fact, that evolution has deemed it more important than the needs of the parents to 'play [their] games, go to [their] parties -- read book[s]...or code'. I'm not going to tell you you're objectively wrong on this, but I will tell you that you have no idea what you're talking about. Life is a squishy, inconvenient, and occasionally beautiful endeavour. Realize that.
• tomjen3 14y ago
  It is only 'worth it' because your genes needs you to protect the next generation. Rationally there is no point in having children at all. And speaking statistically, research shows that parents are no more happy than are those who are not parents.
  • simonh 14y ago
    So what you're saying is you were a complete waste of time and your parents would have been better off without you? Seriously - I'm not trolling or trying to be abusive. It seems to me that's literally what you're saying. Life isn't rational. Pleasure isn't rational. In the grand scheme of things, no achievements are significant or meaningful. But that's no way to live a life, IMHO. I know I'm far happier with my children than at any other time in my life, and I only had them when I was in my mid 30s, so I have plenty of perspective on life with them and without. Yes it was hard work, but so are most things worth doing in this world. I may not really believe that which does not kill you makes you stronger, but I some of the hardest things I've done in life (armed service, relationships, children) have enriched me the most as a person. I can't say the same is true for everyone. We all have different hopes and needs, desires and goals. I'm happy with mine, and sincerely hope yours work out as well for you.
    • tomjen3 14y ago
      Yeah, that is what I am saying -- but then my parents have never been that rational.
    • Avenger42 14y ago
      > In the grand scheme of things, no achievements are significant or meaningful I'd scale that back a bit and say "it's entirely possible none of your achievements (or your children's) will be seen as 'significant or meaningful' to others". But the achievements of people like Norman Borlaug or Alexander Fleming have had a profound impact on the entire world, so when I see "no achievements matter" it gives me pause.
      • simonh 14y ago
• maratd 14y ago
  > Marriage is about compromise. ... > Children, however, afford no such privilege. Well, at least you're 50% there. Don't compromise with your wife, either. Lead your wife and children to a better place. Lead them to a place where all of you are happy and yes, it is possible. It's very easy to "compromise" ... just divide by two, right? Much harder to use your noggin and figure out a position where everybody is genuinely happy. You can compromise with your business partners or whoever else is largely irrelevant. With your family, spend the few extra calories, burn the oil, and figure out a path toward making everyone optimally happy. Lead them there.
  • aiscott 14y ago
    I believe the intended meaning of compromise with regards to marriage is about not always getting "your way."
    • maratd 14y ago
      And my point was that you should always get your way. She should get her way too. So should the kids. You should lead them there.
      • jasonlotito 14y ago
        You misunderstand the word compromise in this context. It's not a negative. Compromise is: > a position where everybody is genuinely happy. It's not about splitting 50/50. People equate meeting someone half way with splitting things 50/50. That's far from it. So, what you say is true. It's what I was saying, just with more words. =) Now, please don't come back and be one of those people that argue semantics. I meant what I said, I said what I meant, and there was just some confusion. Hopefully, it's clearer now.
• aidenn0 14y ago
  As a father of 3, I think the question of "is it worth it" is not as cut-and-dry as you suggest. As I am an extreme introvert, in the near-term, having kids definitely makes me less happy in many measurable ways. That being said, taking care of children is something I have always been drawn to, and is the way I have chosen to leave my mark on the world, as it were. We fostered our first two kids for 18 months before we were offered the opportunity to adopt them, so I was in the situation of being able to choose to go back to having no kids in a socially acceptable manner, which is not an opportunity most people get. I'm going to make the obvious comparison here to starting a company (which I haven't done but am inferring from the numerous articles I've read on it). It's not for everyone, it's a lot of work, and at times you will think you were crazy for ever attempting it. However, for a certain type of person, it's extremely rewarding. Just like not everyone would be happier if they quit their job and started a company, not everyone would be happier if they became a parent, but if it's something you are drawn to, then by all means, do it!
  • jasonlotito 14y ago
    > As a father of 3, I think the question of "is it worth it" is not as cut-and-dry as you suggest. I never meant to imply anything was so cut and dry. Apologies for making it seem so. I just wanted to point out something people should learn from this post. No one should have children because they feel as if they are expected to. They really need to understand what kind of commitment it entails.
• yason 14y ago
  Marriage is about compromise. Children, however, afford no such privilege. No, marriage is having one heck of a good time living your life with your spouse. Being a single parent is better than a bad marriage. And marriage can only be good if the parents know and acknowledge that they together go first, kids come second. Period. Your spouse is the person you spend rest of your life (or at least decades, if you're lucky) and if you give up too much of that for the kids, you won't necessarily have a relationship once the kids move out in twenty years or so. It's not my intention to lure you into thinking that parents should do whatever they need to do and mostly ignore the kids. (A whole lot of good people have been raised that way over the centuries, though.) However, nobody promised the kids a rose garden and neither did anyone promise the same to you. It's just those times in life when there's too much everything and good times are sparse. That is when you need to take care of yourself first, because that's a prerequisite for a relationship. Then you need to take care of your relationship because that's a prerequisite for a working family of two parents and one or more kids. When the relationship is all right, then you can truly take care of the kids too, not just mechanically play a role for a decade while getting more and more bitter every year. Most of the time you do all three—yourself, your relationship, your kids—but you must know which comes first in the tight spot. It's like oxygen masks on the plane. After all, your kids will first try to learn how to live and be happy by mimicking how you live your own life. You don't ever own your kids' lives and you won't even have much control over theirs for more than the 10-15 early years. So be sure you take care of yourself and your marriage because that's what makes you happy for a long time, in your own life.
  • throw-a-way-3 14y ago
    > And marriage can only be good if the parents know and acknowledge that they together go first, kids come second. Period. Eye-opener for me. This is very true, and a harsh truth at that. You made me finally understand what broke my parents' relationship. One of them focused on children, with "at all costs" mindset. And the cost was great indeed. > and you won't even have much control over theirs for more than the 10-15 early years. That much just as well.
    • danparsonson 14y ago
• tzs 14y ago
  > Before you have children, understand that it's for the rest of your life. Really understand the impact. Your concerns are second, beyond anything you've ever understood. Marriage is about compromise. Children, however, afford no such privilege. Related to that, understand that marriage is (generally) with someone who had a choice in the matter. If your spouse is not happy with some aspect of you that was reasonably discoverable before they married you, they can request that you change but have no right to expect you to. For instance, if they know going into the marriage that you a workaholic who places the success of your business above doing "people" things, and they are going to have a problem being married to someone who only will have time for "couple" things maybe one night a month, then they should have declined to enter into the marriage. Kids, on the other hand, have no choice. You made them, they are your responsibility, and if that means you have to limit your work to around 40 hours a week and do that on a regular schedule so you can be there to tend to them, play with them, entertain them, teach them, go to their school plays, and so on, that's what you have to do. As jasonlotito notes, your concerns now come second.
• perlgeek 14y ago
  > Before you have children, understand that it's for the rest of your life. Really understand the impact. As a father with a son with severe autism, and remembering the time before you were a father, do you think that anybody can imagine what it's like? I have a healthy daughter (16 months old), and that alone changed my live beyond anything I could have imagined before. I don't want to belittle anybody's imagination, but in my experience imagination only works well for envisioning things happening to you in short time scales.
  • jasonlotito 14y ago
    > do you think that anybody can imagine what it's like? Oh, no. Of course not. But they should consider the possibility. You cannot assume that it's going to be 18-20 years and they are on their own. That it's diapers for only a couple years and then you don't have to change them. No, there is no way they can fully grasp what it means. But they can't just assume everything will be fine. My wife and I did this, and we waited, and prepared, and we had kids once we were ready. Really ready, and I'd like to think it shows in our children, in our marriage, and in our lives. No, we weren't ready for autism, but we did understand that things could go wrong. So yes, you are right. But it still can't hurt to think about it. Really think about it. More than what some people do.