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I'm pretty surprised that there hasn't been some large-scale class action against Tesla, given Musk and his baseless FSD claims. I mean, it's kind of become a m

by dvt 2y ago

I'm pretty surprised that there hasn't been some large-scale class action against Tesla, given Musk and his baseless FSD claims. I mean, it's kind of become a meme at this point: it was "2 years away" in 2017, it was "one year away" in 2019, it was "coming very soon" in 2022. And he literally said (on the investor calls) that full self driving was "coming later this year" literally in 2023 and just like last month in 2024. Like, wtf? How is making these claims as an Officer of a public company remotely legal?

mandeepj 2y ago
> I'm pretty surprised that there hasn't been some large-scale class action against Musk and his baseless FSD claims. That's on-going! Just keep in-touch with news. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-autopilot-probe-us-prosecutors-focus-securities-wire-fraud-2024-05-08 https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...
- dvt 2y ago
  That's an SEC investigation and not a class action lawsuit. The latter usually tends to be much more punishing (specifically, where the class is the people that literally paid for FSD/Autopilot). The SEC will fine TSLA like $2M if anything at all (big whoop, and I doubt the criminal investigation will go anywhere).
jahnu 2y ago
And considering the share price has dropped and considering “Everything is Securities Fraud”* I am also baffled at the lack of completed or slow action. * Matt Levine ™
jcranmer 2y ago
There is a class action in the works: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/05/tesla-must-face-fraud-suit-for-claiming-its-cars-could-fully-drive-themselves/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/05/tesla-must-face-... It seems one of the potential stumbling blocks is mandatory arbitration unless you thought to opt-out very early.
- dvt 2y ago
  > It seems one of the potential stumbling blocks is mandatory arbitration unless you thought to opt-out very early. It's actually so wild that the judge upheld arbitration[1]. I guess he's technically correct that it doesn't "waive a plaintiff's right to seek public injunctive relief" but it definitely makes it way more annoying. [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/10/judge-upholds-tesla-arbitration-agreement-that-drivers-called-unconscionable/?comments=1&comments-page=1 https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/10/judge-upholds-te...
  - jcranmer 2y ago
    It's not wild, it's the requirement of the statute: if an agreement says an issue goes to arbitration, the courts are required to send it to arbitration; there's no discretion allowed. There's a bill before Congress that would make arbitration agreements unenforceable in class-action, employment, civil rights, and antitrust disputes, but it hasn't gone anywhere despite being introduced in the last 4 Congresses.
    - dvt 2y ago
      > It's not wild, it's the requirement of the statute: if an agreement says an issue goes to arbitration, the courts are required to send it to arbitration; there's no discretion allowed. I'm not a lawyer, but there seems to definitely be some discretion allowed. In fact, the McGill rule is often cited as being a litmus test[1]. Honestly, in the Tesla case, and why I said it's wild, is because Tesla is still selling cars touting full self driving[2]. The injunction here would presumably bar Tesla from selling (or at least advertising) FSD in the interest of public good. In other words, I think the judge got it wrong. Again, I'm not a lawyer, so I might be misunderstanding something, but that's my take. [1] https://www.foley.com/insights/publications/2022/02/a-new-era-mcgill-arbitration-ca-hodges-v-comcast/ https://www.foley.com/insights/publications/2022/02/a-new-er... [2] https://www.tesla.com/support/articles/30-day-fsd-trial https://www.tesla.com/support/articles/30-day-fsd-trial
2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-autopilot-probe-us-prosecutors-focus-securities-wire-fraud-2024-05-08/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... > May 8 (Reuters) - U.S. prosecutors are examining whether Tesla (TSLA.O), opens new tab committed securities or wire fraud by misleading investors and consumers about its electric vehicles’ self-driving capabilities, three people familiar with the matter told Reuters.

by dvt 2y ago

mandeepj 2y ago

> I'm pretty surprised that there hasn't been some large-scale class action against Musk and his baseless FSD claims. That's on-going! Just keep in-touch with news. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-autopilot-probe-us-prosecutors-focus-securities-wire-fraud-2024-05-08 https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...

dvt 2y ago
That's an SEC investigation and not a class action lawsuit. The latter usually tends to be much more punishing (specifically, where the class is the people that literally paid for FSD/Autopilot). The SEC will fine TSLA like $2M if anything at all (big whoop, and I doubt the criminal investigation will go anywhere).

jahnu 2y ago

And considering the share price has dropped and considering “Everything is Securities Fraud”* I am also baffled at the lack of completed or slow action. * Matt Levine ™

jcranmer 2y ago

There is a class action in the works: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/05/tesla-must-face-fraud-suit-for-claiming-its-cars-could-fully-drive-themselves/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/05/tesla-must-face-... It seems one of the potential stumbling blocks is mandatory arbitration unless you thought to opt-out very early.

dvt 2y ago
> It seems one of the potential stumbling blocks is mandatory arbitration unless you thought to opt-out very early. It's actually so wild that the judge upheld arbitration[1]. I guess he's technically correct that it doesn't "waive a plaintiff's right to seek public injunctive relief" but it definitely makes it way more annoying. [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/10/judge-upholds-tesla-arbitration-agreement-that-drivers-called-unconscionable/?comments=1&comments-page=1 https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/10/judge-upholds-te...
- jcranmer 2y ago
  It's not wild, it's the requirement of the statute: if an agreement says an issue goes to arbitration, the courts are required to send it to arbitration; there's no discretion allowed. There's a bill before Congress that would make arbitration agreements unenforceable in class-action, employment, civil rights, and antitrust disputes, but it hasn't gone anywhere despite being introduced in the last 4 Congresses.
  - dvt 2y ago
    > It's not wild, it's the requirement of the statute: if an agreement says an issue goes to arbitration, the courts are required to send it to arbitration; there's no discretion allowed. I'm not a lawyer, but there seems to definitely be some discretion allowed. In fact, the McGill rule is often cited as being a litmus test[1]. Honestly, in the Tesla case, and why I said it's wild, is because Tesla is still selling cars touting full self driving[2]. The injunction here would presumably bar Tesla from selling (or at least advertising) FSD in the interest of public good. In other words, I think the judge got it wrong. Again, I'm not a lawyer, so I might be misunderstanding something, but that's my take. [1] https://www.foley.com/insights/publications/2022/02/a-new-era-mcgill-arbitration-ca-hodges-v-comcast/ https://www.foley.com/insights/publications/2022/02/a-new-er... [2] https://www.tesla.com/support/articles/30-day-fsd-trial https://www.tesla.com/support/articles/30-day-fsd-trial

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-autopilot-probe-us-prosecutors-focus-securities-wire-fraud-2024-05-08/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... > May 8 (Reuters) - U.S. prosecutors are examining whether Tesla (TSLA.O), opens new tab committed securities or wire fraud by misleading investors and consumers about its electric vehicles’ self-driving capabilities, three people familiar with the matter told Reuters.