8 ms·

All the seating and cargo capacity of a motorcycle, with the visibility of a car! There's no way in hell I'd split lanes on that thing; when I'm on my motorcycl

by jff 14y ago

All the seating and cargo capacity of a motorcycle, with the visibility of a car! There's no way in hell I'd split lanes on that thing; when I'm on my motorcycle, I have no obstructions and can see all around me, and definitely know where the edges of my bike are. This looks like a low-slung claustrophobic nightmare. Even if it is a very technically cool thing.

WiseWeasel 14y ago
Maybe you can split two lanes occupied by other similar vehicles.
ajross 14y ago
I don't think the target market is existing bikers. The idea isn't that you "split lanes" trying to get places faster in a car-dominated environment, it's that you have a reasonable commute vehicle to use as a car replacement. Note that it was designed to have a windshield and roof (although this one doesn't seem to have the windows installed).
- mbenjaminsmith 14y ago
  I don't think they'll tap any market but motorcycle drivers. The cost -- even their lowered "target" cost of 16k -- will put you in a car of sorts (either a city car or a used one). I sincerely doubt anyone who can afford a four-wheeled alternative would consider this. It's just too small and too dangerous. Also, the gyroscopes will keep you upright even if you're hit? Yeah right. Let's see how that works out when an SUV hits you at 60. If it were way cooler -- and remember a Ducati, BWM, or just about any premium bike can be had for under 16k already -- I might consider it as a motorcycle driver. But like the OP said I would feel less safe in it because it's lower to the ground and has much less visibility.
  - ajross 14y ago
    You're not controlling variables. Of course you won't sell these into the existing market. But the existing market is unsustainable (fuel costs alone would change your calculus about "same cost as a car" today), so what will you sell in the future? Bikes, or these? I know what I'd buy. And I don't see anywhere where it claimed that the gyros would work in a collision that would destroy the vehicle; that's silly. The point is they won't tip over in a fender bender.
    - mbenjaminsmith 14y ago
      In what future will the two transportation choices be motorcycles and covered motorcycles? On a more serious note, how is the current market unsustainable? Even if something as specious as "Peak Oil" were true, it's well within our power to move to another fuel source. And since when does fuel availability dictate personal vehicle design? If we can make any personal vehicle, certainly we can make one with four wheels and room for passengers and groceries?
      - ajross 14y ago
        At-the-pump gasoline prices have been moving steadily, inexorably upward for the past 13 years. It's not even news any more when we hit new record prices; it happens every summer. You really think that trend is going to halt any time soon? A median car in the USA is now less expensive than the fuel it will consume (and outside the USA, of course, fuel is a much greater fraction). You think that constraint won't "dicate personal vehicle design" in the future? I don't need "peak oil" theories to make this argument, just simple facts you can google for yourself. (And the bit about the choice being "only" two wheelers is a strawman; please don't do that. I said it was a "reasonable commute vehicle", it was you that wanted to make an argument about whether it competes with a bike.)
        InclinedPlane 14y ago
        "Inexorably". Yes. Now, if we believed that any consistent trend over a period of about a decade would last forever, where would we all be? Buying multi-million dollar 2-bedroom homes in Detroit with our pets.com investment proceeds, I'd imagine.
        jack-r-abbit 14y ago
        but... because pets can't drive... your argument is invalid. LOL
        ajross 14y ago
        Your point being what, that there's a speculative boom in petroleum prices? It's a finite resource with a growing demand. Seems like my argument requires less in the way of elaborate justification. I don't expect to convince you of anything. So: write it down. In 2012 you thought $4 gas was going to stop getting more expensive. In 2014 when it hits $5, you'll probably think similarly. At $10, maybe you're change your mind. And if you've written it down you'll hopefully avoid this kind of mistake in the future. People like you have been predicting cheaper gas right around the corner since 2003. They haven't been right yet.
njharman 14y ago
Yeah, I thought, ditch the body work and it might be cool.
sp332 14y ago
It's illegal to split lanes in most states.
- starwed 14y ago
  And it's not like it's illegal but folk do it anyway -- I have never, ever seen someone do that in my state.
  - jff 14y ago
    How congested are the roads there? It is legal in California, although I typically don't ride in heavy traffic so I don't feel the need. I'm told that it's also quite common in Washington DC, despite being illegal there.
jack-r-abbit 14y ago
As I understand it, lane splitting is illegal in many U.S. states, but is considered lawful in California (though there is no law for or against it... it is simply "allowed"). I might be wrong but I thought the main justification for lane splitting was due to the air-cooled aspect of motorcycles and the harm that can come from sitting in stalled/slow traffic (although, where I live I see this get abused everyday by motorcycles that just want to go faster than the cars around them). Being electric, this vehicle would not have that cooling problem and would have less need for lane splitting. Not being able to lane split would not be a significant negative to me. Being two wheeled it will be classified as a motorcycle (at least here in California.. don't know if that is everywhere). Being a motorcycle gets you other privileges besides lane splitting like being in the HOV lanes and (in some places) special parking.
- cameronh90 14y ago
  Lane splitting in the UK is allowed and encouraged, as it reduces traffic on the road.
  - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
    Well... this is being developed in Alameda, CA... so in one of a few US states that even allow lane splitting. Just like a lot of European cars never make it to the US, this may never make it out of the US. So to completely discount it because it can't/shouldn't do what is not really allowed in the vast majority of the most likely market seems like just looking for a reason to hate on it. If lane splitting is the best way to reduce traffic around here then we're all screwed.
- sankyo 14y ago
  I split lanes (San Francisco) to avoid being rear ended by an inattentive driver. The safest place to be is between 2 cars at a red light. Of course I like going faster than all the cars around me and I can get a block or two ahead of everyone by cruising up to the front of the queue. There is a safe way to split lanes - do not go more than 5-10 MPH faster than the cars, and watch for gaps because a car will change lanes unexpectedly to fill those gaps. I like the idea of the vehicle in the article mainly for these reasons: more throughput on the roads (every car has only one passenger) and fuel efficiency. I would like to see a world where people commuted in these and only used the SUV for bigger trips.

by jff 14y ago

WiseWeasel 14y ago

Maybe you can split two lanes occupied by other similar vehicles.

ajross 14y ago

I don't think the target market is existing bikers. The idea isn't that you "split lanes" trying to get places faster in a car-dominated environment, it's that you have a reasonable commute vehicle to use as a car replacement. Note that it was designed to have a windshield and roof (although this one doesn't seem to have the windows installed).

mbenjaminsmith 14y ago
I don't think they'll tap any market but motorcycle drivers. The cost -- even their lowered "target" cost of 16k -- will put you in a car of sorts (either a city car or a used one). I sincerely doubt anyone who can afford a four-wheeled alternative would consider this. It's just too small and too dangerous. Also, the gyroscopes will keep you upright even if you're hit? Yeah right. Let's see how that works out when an SUV hits you at 60. If it were way cooler -- and remember a Ducati, BWM, or just about any premium bike can be had for under 16k already -- I might consider it as a motorcycle driver. But like the OP said I would feel less safe in it because it's lower to the ground and has much less visibility.
- ajross 14y ago
  You're not controlling variables. Of course you won't sell these into the existing market. But the existing market is unsustainable (fuel costs alone would change your calculus about "same cost as a car" today), so what will you sell in the future? Bikes, or these? I know what I'd buy. And I don't see anywhere where it claimed that the gyros would work in a collision that would destroy the vehicle; that's silly. The point is they won't tip over in a fender bender.
  - mbenjaminsmith 14y ago
    In what future will the two transportation choices be motorcycles and covered motorcycles? On a more serious note, how is the current market unsustainable? Even if something as specious as "Peak Oil" were true, it's well within our power to move to another fuel source. And since when does fuel availability dictate personal vehicle design? If we can make any personal vehicle, certainly we can make one with four wheels and room for passengers and groceries?
    - ajross 14y ago
      At-the-pump gasoline prices have been moving steadily, inexorably upward for the past 13 years. It's not even news any more when we hit new record prices; it happens every summer. You really think that trend is going to halt any time soon? A median car in the USA is now less expensive than the fuel it will consume (and outside the USA, of course, fuel is a much greater fraction). You think that constraint won't "dicate personal vehicle design" in the future? I don't need "peak oil" theories to make this argument, just simple facts you can google for yourself. (And the bit about the choice being "only" two wheelers is a strawman; please don't do that. I said it was a "reasonable commute vehicle", it was you that wanted to make an argument about whether it competes with a bike.)
      - InclinedPlane 14y ago
        "Inexorably". Yes. Now, if we believed that any consistent trend over a period of about a decade would last forever, where would we all be? Buying multi-million dollar 2-bedroom homes in Detroit with our pets.com investment proceeds, I'd imagine.
        jack-r-abbit 14y ago
        but... because pets can't drive... your argument is invalid. LOL
        ajross 14y ago
        Your point being what, that there's a speculative boom in petroleum prices? It's a finite resource with a growing demand. Seems like my argument requires less in the way of elaborate justification. I don't expect to convince you of anything. So: write it down. In 2012 you thought $4 gas was going to stop getting more expensive. In 2014 when it hits $5, you'll probably think similarly. At $10, maybe you're change your mind. And if you've written it down you'll hopefully avoid this kind of mistake in the future. People like you have been predicting cheaper gas right around the corner since 2003. They haven't been right yet.

njharman 14y ago

Yeah, I thought, ditch the body work and it might be cool.

sp332 14y ago

It's illegal to split lanes in most states.

starwed 14y ago
And it's not like it's illegal but folk do it anyway -- I have never, ever seen someone do that in my state.
- jff 14y ago
  How congested are the roads there? It is legal in California, although I typically don't ride in heavy traffic so I don't feel the need. I'm told that it's also quite common in Washington DC, despite being illegal there.

jack-r-abbit 14y ago

As I understand it, lane splitting is illegal in many U.S. states, but is considered lawful in California (though there is no law for or against it... it is simply "allowed"). I might be wrong but I thought the main justification for lane splitting was due to the air-cooled aspect of motorcycles and the harm that can come from sitting in stalled/slow traffic (although, where I live I see this get abused everyday by motorcycles that just want to go faster than the cars around them). Being electric, this vehicle would not have that cooling problem and would have less need for lane splitting. Not being able to lane split would not be a significant negative to me. Being two wheeled it will be classified as a motorcycle (at least here in California.. don't know if that is everywhere). Being a motorcycle gets you other privileges besides lane splitting like being in the HOV lanes and (in some places) special parking.

cameronh90 14y ago
Lane splitting in the UK is allowed and encouraged, as it reduces traffic on the road.
- jack-r-abbit 14y ago
  Well... this is being developed in Alameda, CA... so in one of a few US states that even allow lane splitting. Just like a lot of European cars never make it to the US, this may never make it out of the US. So to completely discount it because it can't/shouldn't do what is not really allowed in the vast majority of the most likely market seems like just looking for a reason to hate on it. If lane splitting is the best way to reduce traffic around here then we're all screwed.
sankyo 14y ago
I split lanes (San Francisco) to avoid being rear ended by an inattentive driver. The safest place to be is between 2 cars at a red light. Of course I like going faster than all the cars around me and I can get a block or two ahead of everyone by cruising up to the front of the queue. There is a safe way to split lanes - do not go more than 5-10 MPH faster than the cars, and watch for gaps because a car will change lanes unexpectedly to fill those gaps. I like the idea of the vehicle in the article mainly for these reasons: more throughput on the roads (every car has only one passenger) and fuel efficiency. I would like to see a world where people commuted in these and only used the SUV for bigger trips.