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>> $13,078.58 to fix a quarter-size hole Years ago I read this advice "Find an under-served market and serve it cheaply." There's an opportunity here for a 3r

>> $13,078.58 to fix a quarter-size hole Years ago I read this advice "Find an under-served market and serve it cheaply." There's an opportunity here for a 3rd party to service and repair Teslas at a reasonable price.

devmor 2y ago
I would imagine there’s a major blocker here or it would already exist. My bets are on supply chain or Tesla refusing to honor warranties if you get work done elsewhere.
- akira2501 2y ago
  Tesla can void your warranty at any time. Tesla can remotely disable features on their vehicles. It's a tough job repairing something that you then cannot guarantee in any way.
  - jgalt212 2y ago
    So can Apple, but people get iPhones fixed all the time. Of course, a car is 40-80X more expensive than a phone, so stakes are lower for someone seeking out a non-licensed repair shop. But it probably comes down to right to repair, and can Tesla be shown as impeding this right. My guess, is yes. But I also think, as usual, the authorities are reluctant to penalize Elon. He makes such a stink about such things, they'd rather penalized John Deere.
    - from-nibly 2y ago
      Can apple really reach into your device and just shut it off remotely? Cause tesla can.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        Yes. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102541 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102541 > With Activation Lock, your Apple ID password or device passcode is required before anyone can turn off Find My, erase your Mac, or reactivate and use your Mac. Even if you erase your Mac remotely, Activation Lock can continue to deter others from reactivating your Mac without your permission. All you need to do is keep Find My turned on and remember your Apple ID and password.
  - marssaxman 2y ago
    Sounds like the first job for any repair shop will be disabling Tesla's root access!
  - fragmede 2y ago
    Which, like, someone should sue Tesla for violating the CFAA when they do that. If you bought the car and you own it, Tesla remoting in and changing things on your car is a CFAA violation.
- mrguyorama 2y ago
  Indeed, if there's no second source OEM provider of compatible Tesla parts, then the reason for stupid expensive Tesla repairs is simply that Tesla makes more profit/share price improvement from selling a new car over repairing an already sold car. At least until people start to consider them unrepairable.
themaninthedark 2y ago
>>Soon, a body shop found a quarter-size hole in the undercarriage he hadn’t seen before, which led to revelations of deeper issues inside. “The high-voltage battery pack is damaged and could cause extreme safety concerns,” a Tesla technician texted him. Because the hole was “exterior damage,” it wasn’t covered by the warranty, which meant a $13,078.58 repair bill. Looks like selective quoting to me, the quarter sized hole was under the battery pack, which was damaged. Since the hole was punched upward from the ground, it counted as exterior damage. So $13,078.58 to fix the hole and battery pack issue.
- t0mas88 2y ago
  That 13k to fix the battery pack is the main problem. Repairs on a Tesla are a lot more expensive than repairs on an average car. That makes a used Tesla a less attractive option, and makes any Tesla more expensive to insure. In the long term that also makes new Tesla's less attractive. Low resale value and high insurance costs both increase the monthly cost of owning one, which is the number the majority of consumers will look at.
  - themaninthedark 2y ago
    How much does a battery pack cost to manufacture? How much does it cost at retail? Also there is the under armor which was damaged as well. What else is required to remove and reinstall? I could see a new pack costing about 10k retail, probably 7 mfg costs. To remove and install a new one: 0: Lift car on Jacks. 1: Disconnect old pack connector at car. 2: Discharge old pack 3: Remove old under-armor panel 4: Remove old pack from car 5: Install new pack in car 6: Install new under-armor panel 7: Reconnect new pack to car 8: Run diagnostic tests That looks like a 3 to 4 hour job minimum, with specialized equipment dealing with high voltage to me. I think 13k is not a bad price at all.
    - t0mas88 2y ago
      Yes, 13k may be a perfectly fine price for the issue. But that means a Tesla does not have as low a cost of ownership as people originally thought. It doesn't need oil changes, but now you have to deal with a low resale value and high insurance costs. The savings on fuel and mechanical maintenance may be lost to that.
Lx1oG-AWb6h_ZG0 2y ago
There are plenty of reports about how Tesla has made this difficult. Tesla parts are difficult to obtain even for Tesla’s own service centers: there are frequent months-long waits. “Certified” non-Tesla shops get parts at a lower priority, non-certified shops simply cannot order most parts (just basic stuff like bumpers) 0: https://www.reddit.com/r/Insurance/s/fkcTScUDpL https://www.reddit.com/r/Insurance/s/fkcTScUDpL
- NegativeLatency 2y ago
  What if you had 30k or 10k teslas hanging around for parts though?
  - getcrunk 2y ago
    Software lock ala apple?
    - jeffrallen 2y ago
      Definitely, and even with some legitimate reasons. The inverter and the motor are linked by a calibration.
    - NegativeLatency 2y ago
      Interesting, I've seen people using tesla drive motors in electric conversions, so maybe that's easier if they're controlled by some 3rd party hardware, because you're just fighting the motor not the whole car as a system.
- hollerith 2y ago
  Maybe someone needs to found the Framework Computer, Inc, of electric cars.
  - iancmceachern 2y ago
    I have the skillset and network to design, prototype and source just about any part or assembly. If anyone wants to do this, seriously, reach out.
porphyra 2y ago
It's not just a quarter size hole. It's a quarter size hole in the high voltage battery pack, which is indeed extremely dangerous and needs specialized equipment and skill to replace.
xyst 2y ago
From Teslas own service website: > Only new Tesla parts, Tesla-approved fasteners, and Tesla-approved structural adhesives must be used when performing repairs on Tesla vehicles. https://service.tesla.com/docs/BodyRepair/Body_Repair_Procedures/Model_3/HTML/en-us/GUID-D8AB5994-C3C1-44B9-A392-585E2298719F.html https://service.tesla.com/docs/BodyRepair/Body_Repair_Proced... What’s not clear: how much are those “new Tesla parts”? Tesla uses some scary language to make it seem like they are the only ones that can repair their product. They have taken a page out of the Apple playbook.
- Y_Y 2y ago
  > Tesla does not allow the use of any used, recycled, alternative, aftermarket, or third-party replacement parts. Use only new parts ordered directly from Tesla. I didn't read all the was too the fine print, but these statements are patently nonsense. Maybe doing the things they don't like will void your warranty or something, but adhesives don't get stickier just because Tesla decrees it. They may well advise you on what to do, or even try to fuck up your car's software if they detect you've defied them, but they can't just issue commands or make statements about the impossibility of letting someone else fix your bumper.
bombcar 2y ago
It wasn't to fix the hole, it was damage to the battery that wasn't covered by the warranty because of the hole.
rpcope1 2y ago
This is one of the reasons I disliked Tesla from the outset. Other manufacturers have various levels of challenge on repairs, but from the very moment they released the model S, they have been extremely aggressive at making any sort of third party repair impossible. Even connecting to the vehicle diagnostics got the vehicle to phone home and people at Tesla to actively subvert your attempt to learn or diagnose anything. For as much shit as we talk about "being green", making a car harder to fix (and thus much more likely to just get totalled and scrapped when it could ostensibly be fixed and serviced) is about as "anti-green" and anti-consumer as I could imagine.

devmor 2y ago

I would imagine there’s a major blocker here or it would already exist. My bets are on supply chain or Tesla refusing to honor warranties if you get work done elsewhere.

akira2501 2y ago
Tesla can void your warranty at any time. Tesla can remotely disable features on their vehicles. It's a tough job repairing something that you then cannot guarantee in any way.
- jgalt212 2y ago
  So can Apple, but people get iPhones fixed all the time. Of course, a car is 40-80X more expensive than a phone, so stakes are lower for someone seeking out a non-licensed repair shop. But it probably comes down to right to repair, and can Tesla be shown as impeding this right. My guess, is yes. But I also think, as usual, the authorities are reluctant to penalize Elon. He makes such a stink about such things, they'd rather penalized John Deere.
  - from-nibly 2y ago
    Can apple really reach into your device and just shut it off remotely? Cause tesla can.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      Yes. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102541 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102541 > With Activation Lock, your Apple ID password or device passcode is required before anyone can turn off Find My, erase your Mac, or reactivate and use your Mac. Even if you erase your Mac remotely, Activation Lock can continue to deter others from reactivating your Mac without your permission. All you need to do is keep Find My turned on and remember your Apple ID and password.
- marssaxman 2y ago
  Sounds like the first job for any repair shop will be disabling Tesla's root access!
- fragmede 2y ago
  Which, like, someone should sue Tesla for violating the CFAA when they do that. If you bought the car and you own it, Tesla remoting in and changing things on your car is a CFAA violation.
mrguyorama 2y ago
Indeed, if there's no second source OEM provider of compatible Tesla parts, then the reason for stupid expensive Tesla repairs is simply that Tesla makes more profit/share price improvement from selling a new car over repairing an already sold car. At least until people start to consider them unrepairable.

themaninthedark 2y ago

>>Soon, a body shop found a quarter-size hole in the undercarriage he hadn’t seen before, which led to revelations of deeper issues inside. “The high-voltage battery pack is damaged and could cause extreme safety concerns,” a Tesla technician texted him. Because the hole was “exterior damage,” it wasn’t covered by the warranty, which meant a $13,078.58 repair bill. Looks like selective quoting to me, the quarter sized hole was under the battery pack, which was damaged. Since the hole was punched upward from the ground, it counted as exterior damage. So $13,078.58 to fix the hole and battery pack issue.

t0mas88 2y ago
That 13k to fix the battery pack is the main problem. Repairs on a Tesla are a lot more expensive than repairs on an average car. That makes a used Tesla a less attractive option, and makes any Tesla more expensive to insure. In the long term that also makes new Tesla's less attractive. Low resale value and high insurance costs both increase the monthly cost of owning one, which is the number the majority of consumers will look at.
- themaninthedark 2y ago
  How much does a battery pack cost to manufacture? How much does it cost at retail? Also there is the under armor which was damaged as well. What else is required to remove and reinstall? I could see a new pack costing about 10k retail, probably 7 mfg costs. To remove and install a new one: 0: Lift car on Jacks. 1: Disconnect old pack connector at car. 2: Discharge old pack 3: Remove old under-armor panel 4: Remove old pack from car 5: Install new pack in car 6: Install new under-armor panel 7: Reconnect new pack to car 8: Run diagnostic tests That looks like a 3 to 4 hour job minimum, with specialized equipment dealing with high voltage to me. I think 13k is not a bad price at all.
  - t0mas88 2y ago
    Yes, 13k may be a perfectly fine price for the issue. But that means a Tesla does not have as low a cost of ownership as people originally thought. It doesn't need oil changes, but now you have to deal with a low resale value and high insurance costs. The savings on fuel and mechanical maintenance may be lost to that.

Lx1oG-AWb6h_ZG0 2y ago

There are plenty of reports about how Tesla has made this difficult. Tesla parts are difficult to obtain even for Tesla’s own service centers: there are frequent months-long waits. “Certified” non-Tesla shops get parts at a lower priority, non-certified shops simply cannot order most parts (just basic stuff like bumpers) 0: https://www.reddit.com/r/Insurance/s/fkcTScUDpL https://www.reddit.com/r/Insurance/s/fkcTScUDpL

NegativeLatency 2y ago
What if you had 30k or 10k teslas hanging around for parts though?
- getcrunk 2y ago
  Software lock ala apple?
  - jeffrallen 2y ago
    Definitely, and even with some legitimate reasons. The inverter and the motor are linked by a calibration.
  - NegativeLatency 2y ago
    Interesting, I've seen people using tesla drive motors in electric conversions, so maybe that's easier if they're controlled by some 3rd party hardware, because you're just fighting the motor not the whole car as a system.
hollerith 2y ago
Maybe someone needs to found the Framework Computer, Inc, of electric cars.
- iancmceachern 2y ago
  I have the skillset and network to design, prototype and source just about any part or assembly. If anyone wants to do this, seriously, reach out.

porphyra 2y ago

It's not just a quarter size hole. It's a quarter size hole in the high voltage battery pack, which is indeed extremely dangerous and needs specialized equipment and skill to replace.

xyst 2y ago

From Teslas own service website: > Only new Tesla parts, Tesla-approved fasteners, and Tesla-approved structural adhesives must be used when performing repairs on Tesla vehicles. https://service.tesla.com/docs/BodyRepair/Body_Repair_Procedures/Model_3/HTML/en-us/GUID-D8AB5994-C3C1-44B9-A392-585E2298719F.html https://service.tesla.com/docs/BodyRepair/Body_Repair_Proced... What’s not clear: how much are those “new Tesla parts”? Tesla uses some scary language to make it seem like they are the only ones that can repair their product. They have taken a page out of the Apple playbook.

Y_Y 2y ago
> Tesla does not allow the use of any used, recycled, alternative, aftermarket, or third-party replacement parts. Use only new parts ordered directly from Tesla. I didn't read all the was too the fine print, but these statements are patently nonsense. Maybe doing the things they don't like will void your warranty or something, but adhesives don't get stickier just because Tesla decrees it. They may well advise you on what to do, or even try to fuck up your car's software if they detect you've defied them, but they can't just issue commands or make statements about the impossibility of letting someone else fix your bumper.

bombcar 2y ago

It wasn't to fix the hole, it was damage to the battery that wasn't covered by the warranty because of the hole.

rpcope1 2y ago

This is one of the reasons I disliked Tesla from the outset. Other manufacturers have various levels of challenge on repairs, but from the very moment they released the model S, they have been extremely aggressive at making any sort of third party repair impossible. Even connecting to the vehicle diagnostics got the vehicle to phone home and people at Tesla to actively subvert your attempt to learn or diagnose anything. For as much shit as we talk about "being green", making a car harder to fix (and thus much more likely to just get totalled and scrapped when it could ostensibly be fixed and serviced) is about as "anti-green" and anti-consumer as I could imagine.