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> it targets only Israel without laying any blame or responsibility on the Hamas The reason students are asking their schools to divest from Israel but not fro

> it targets only Israel without laying any blame or responsibility on the Hamas The reason students are asking their schools to divest from Israel but not from Hamas is because no western schools are funding Hamas or corporations that sell weapons to Hamas. You want protest camps set up to demand schools keep not doing that? > the UN just updated its casualty statistics I just looked them up (https://www.ochaopt.org/ https://www.ochaopt.org/). 34,904+ killed, 70,000 homes destroyed, and 1.7 million people displaced in Gaza. I agree Hamas is probably worse than the Israeli government in some sort of doctrinal or deontological sense, but in terms of actual atrocities committed, it is not even close at this point.

invalidname 2y ago
> You want protest camps set up to demand schools keep not doing that? No. I want protests to have the Israeli flag too. Acknowledge Israel has the right to exist. Also not rip out posters for the hostages that are held by Hamas to keep the war going. What do you hope to achieve by divesting from Israel? Make Jews feel persecuted. Mission accomplished. Make Hamas feel that pressure is being put on Israel. Again, success. This is blaming an entire country instead of the people responsible for the occupation and settlements. There are ways to target those. E.g. banning products from the settlements, or banning instituted from the settlements. These are things many Israelis can get behind. > I just looked them up They updated the ratio of civilians. Turns out the majority of those are adult male combatants. Not Women and Children like Hamas claimed and was parroted by the media.
- cristoperb 2y ago
  > They updated the ratio of civilians. Turns out the majority of those are adult male combatants. As of yesterday, the UN is reporting that 60% of deaths are women, children, and the elderly. So even if you want to pretend that all adult men in Gaza are combatants, your minimization is verging on genocide denial. (And the total figures are "not including more than 10,000 reported missing or under the rubble" so the death stats are almost certainly low.) https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-222 https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-i...
  - invalidname 2y ago
    I guess they didn't update their site: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/r1lxlcjxr https://www.ynetnews.com/article/r1lxlcjxr
    - cristoperb 2y ago
      But that article reports the same numbers as currently on the UN site: "7,797 children (32%), and 4,959 women (20%.)" That's most of the fatalities.
      - runarberg 2y ago
        The site is also simply wrong: > The UN now claims that in total 24,686 people were confirmed killed, The correct statement is that “The UN now claims that 24,686 people who have been confirmed killed and fully identified. There are over 10,000 confirmed victims who are confirmed dead, but not yet fully identified, and then there are around 10,000 more missing and presumed dead under the rubble, in undiscovered mass graves, etc. Bringing the total number of dead closer to 50,000. This site is willfully misleading, and is actively lying by only counting identified victims and claiming that is the total number of victims. https://www.npr.org/2024/05/15/1251265727/un-gaza-death-toll-women-children https://www.npr.org/2024/05/15/1251265727/un-gaza-death-toll...
      - invalidname 2y ago
        Which are half of what it used to report with no explanation. These numbers are very different from the Israeli published numbers with no explanation.
        runarberg 2y ago
        That is simply wrong, they gave the explaination pretty clearly: > The U.N. says Gaza's Health Ministry has been able to fully identify 24,686 deaths out of more than 35,000 people the ministry says have been killed in the Gaza Strip. > U.N. spokesperson Farhan Haq says Gaza's Health Ministry is still working to fully identify 10,000 or more deaths. Based on the identities confirmed so far, though, the U.N. now says about 52% of those killed have been women and children. > Haq, who is the deputy spokesperson for the U.N. secretary-general, was asked in a briefing Monday about media reports, one of which was shared by Israel's foreign minister, that said the U.N. had halved the number of women and children it had been saying were killed in Gaza. > "It's not quite the case," Haq said. "The overall number of fatalities that has been tallied by the Ministry of Health in Gaza, which is our counterpart on dealing with the death tolls, that number remains unchanged," he said, reiterating the figure stands at more than 35,000. https://www.npr.org/2024/05/15/1251265727/un-gaza-death-toll-women-children https://www.npr.org/2024/05/15/1251265727/un-gaza-death-toll... To summaries, they lowered the number because now they are only using confirmed dead and fully identified, whereas previously they included confirmed dead and not yet fully identified. So out of all the confirmed deaths, only about 70% (not half, as you claimed) has been fully identified. The UN is now using that 70% figure. If you want to get to half, you will have to include presumed but not confirmed deaths (missing, under rubble, in undiscovered mass graves, etc.) this number is believed to be another 10,000, bringing the total number of dead or presumed dead to 45,000. About 55% of confirmed or presumed deaths have been fully identified. The UN is now using that 55% figure.

invalidname 2y ago

> You want protest camps set up to demand schools keep not doing that? No. I want protests to have the Israeli flag too. Acknowledge Israel has the right to exist. Also not rip out posters for the hostages that are held by Hamas to keep the war going. What do you hope to achieve by divesting from Israel? Make Jews feel persecuted. Mission accomplished. Make Hamas feel that pressure is being put on Israel. Again, success. This is blaming an entire country instead of the people responsible for the occupation and settlements. There are ways to target those. E.g. banning products from the settlements, or banning instituted from the settlements. These are things many Israelis can get behind. > I just looked them up They updated the ratio of civilians. Turns out the majority of those are adult male combatants. Not Women and Children like Hamas claimed and was parroted by the media.

cristoperb 2y ago
> They updated the ratio of civilians. Turns out the majority of those are adult male combatants. As of yesterday, the UN is reporting that 60% of deaths are women, children, and the elderly. So even if you want to pretend that all adult men in Gaza are combatants, your minimization is verging on genocide denial. (And the total figures are "not including more than 10,000 reported missing or under the rubble" so the death stats are almost certainly low.) https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-222 https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-i...
- invalidname 2y ago
  I guess they didn't update their site: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/r1lxlcjxr https://www.ynetnews.com/article/r1lxlcjxr
  - cristoperb 2y ago
    But that article reports the same numbers as currently on the UN site: "7,797 children (32%), and 4,959 women (20%.)" That's most of the fatalities.
    - runarberg 2y ago
      The site is also simply wrong: > The UN now claims that in total 24,686 people were confirmed killed, The correct statement is that “The UN now claims that 24,686 people who have been confirmed killed and fully identified. There are over 10,000 confirmed victims who are confirmed dead, but not yet fully identified, and then there are around 10,000 more missing and presumed dead under the rubble, in undiscovered mass graves, etc. Bringing the total number of dead closer to 50,000. This site is willfully misleading, and is actively lying by only counting identified victims and claiming that is the total number of victims. https://www.npr.org/2024/05/15/1251265727/un-gaza-death-toll-women-children https://www.npr.org/2024/05/15/1251265727/un-gaza-death-toll...
    - invalidname 2y ago
      Which are half of what it used to report with no explanation. These numbers are very different from the Israeli published numbers with no explanation.
      - runarberg 2y ago
        That is simply wrong, they gave the explaination pretty clearly: > The U.N. says Gaza's Health Ministry has been able to fully identify 24,686 deaths out of more than 35,000 people the ministry says have been killed in the Gaza Strip. > U.N. spokesperson Farhan Haq says Gaza's Health Ministry is still working to fully identify 10,000 or more deaths. Based on the identities confirmed so far, though, the U.N. now says about 52% of those killed have been women and children. > Haq, who is the deputy spokesperson for the U.N. secretary-general, was asked in a briefing Monday about media reports, one of which was shared by Israel's foreign minister, that said the U.N. had halved the number of women and children it had been saying were killed in Gaza. > "It's not quite the case," Haq said. "The overall number of fatalities that has been tallied by the Ministry of Health in Gaza, which is our counterpart on dealing with the death tolls, that number remains unchanged," he said, reiterating the figure stands at more than 35,000. https://www.npr.org/2024/05/15/1251265727/un-gaza-death-toll-women-children https://www.npr.org/2024/05/15/1251265727/un-gaza-death-toll... To summaries, they lowered the number because now they are only using confirmed dead and fully identified, whereas previously they included confirmed dead and not yet fully identified. So out of all the confirmed deaths, only about 70% (not half, as you claimed) has been fully identified. The UN is now using that 70% figure. If you want to get to half, you will have to include presumed but not confirmed deaths (missing, under rubble, in undiscovered mass graves, etc.) this number is believed to be another 10,000, bringing the total number of dead or presumed dead to 45,000. About 55% of confirmed or presumed deaths have been fully identified. The UN is now using that 55% figure.