3 ms·

Seems more like .26-.46/kWh[0] And at a quick glance that seems more likely (to me) to be a response to capital cost spikes after all the wildfires as well as h

Seems more like .26-.46/kWh[0] And at a quick glance that seems more likely (to me) to be a response to capital cost spikes after all the wildfires as well as higher labor costs for the state, rather than because they are shifting to batteries[1]. The delivery layer is definitely bloated though, I agree with you there. Personally I think that's a regulatory capture problem. [0]https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices_selectedareas_table.htm https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices... [1]https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices_selectedareas_table.htm https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices...

hedora 2y ago
I honestly think PG&E is going to collapse. It’s $0.49 / kWh here, which means our power bill would be $600-1000 per month if we didn’t have solar. Full off the grid with propane backup costs less than $80K. ($20K each for panels, batteries, install and generator — I’m wildly overestimating intentionally). At $600 per month, it takes 11 years for cutting the cord to pay for itself. More realistic estimates lower that to under 5-6 years. Having said that, there are ecological reasons to give them free electricity from our batteries and excess solar. However, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s cheaper to just build your own power plant and not do business with them. Ultimately, someone needs to pay for grid maintenance, and, given the current insane market distortions, there’s hardly any economic incentive for individuals to continue to do so.
- morsch 2y ago
  2000 kWh per month is crazy. Presumably that includes an electric car? Otherwise I don't even
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    Cooling (and heating) a 2.5k+ sq ft home with 10ft+ ceiling and open foyer will get you there easily.
    - ses1984 2y ago
      If open foyer means what I think it means, an open foyer is pretty crazy.
      - lotsofpulp 2y ago
        Lots (most?) of 2 story US homes built in the last few decades have 20ft+ tall foyers or living room vaunted ceilings. Extremely inefficient for heating and cooling, especially since almost all have only 1 zone air conditioning. https://www.homestratosphere.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/chandelier-foyer-design-4-feb132019-min.jpg https://www.homestratosphere.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/... https://www.pinterest.com/pin/two-story-foyer-design-ideas-pictures-remodel-and-decor--729864683374816345/ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/two-story-foyer-design-ideas-p...
        hedora 2y ago
        We have a small, >4mi/kWh EV, the heating / cooking is all electric, and the house is small and extremely energy efficient by US standards. Our panels produce 2000-3000 kWh per month in the summer, which is when we actually hit 2MWh of usage.
        ses1984 2y ago
        In California I assumed open foyer means literally open to the elements.
        lotsofpulp 2y ago
        I should have been clearer and written foyer with tall ceilings where air flows freely between the top and bottom floor of the house.
  - infecto 2y ago
    Probably the potential differences in climate and home sizes between America and Germany. 2000kWh is not that exceptional for a normal American sized home.

hedora 2y ago

I honestly think PG&E is going to collapse. It’s $0.49 / kWh here, which means our power bill would be $600-1000 per month if we didn’t have solar. Full off the grid with propane backup costs less than $80K. ($20K each for panels, batteries, install and generator — I’m wildly overestimating intentionally). At $600 per month, it takes 11 years for cutting the cord to pay for itself. More realistic estimates lower that to under 5-6 years. Having said that, there are ecological reasons to give them free electricity from our batteries and excess solar. However, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s cheaper to just build your own power plant and not do business with them. Ultimately, someone needs to pay for grid maintenance, and, given the current insane market distortions, there’s hardly any economic incentive for individuals to continue to do so.

morsch 2y ago
2000 kWh per month is crazy. Presumably that includes an electric car? Otherwise I don't even
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  Cooling (and heating) a 2.5k+ sq ft home with 10ft+ ceiling and open foyer will get you there easily.
  - ses1984 2y ago
    If open foyer means what I think it means, an open foyer is pretty crazy.
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      Lots (most?) of 2 story US homes built in the last few decades have 20ft+ tall foyers or living room vaunted ceilings. Extremely inefficient for heating and cooling, especially since almost all have only 1 zone air conditioning. https://www.homestratosphere.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/chandelier-foyer-design-4-feb132019-min.jpg https://www.homestratosphere.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/... https://www.pinterest.com/pin/two-story-foyer-design-ideas-pictures-remodel-and-decor--729864683374816345/ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/two-story-foyer-design-ideas-p...
      - hedora 2y ago
        We have a small, >4mi/kWh EV, the heating / cooking is all electric, and the house is small and extremely energy efficient by US standards. Our panels produce 2000-3000 kWh per month in the summer, which is when we actually hit 2MWh of usage.
      - ses1984 2y ago
        In California I assumed open foyer means literally open to the elements.
        lotsofpulp 2y ago
        I should have been clearer and written foyer with tall ceilings where air flows freely between the top and bottom floor of the house.
- infecto 2y ago
  Probably the potential differences in climate and home sizes between America and Germany. 2000kWh is not that exceptional for a normal American sized home.