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This is utter nonsense. Let's take the Vietnam war protests of 1969 that are so remembered to this day. They were massive and culturally influential. Yet they g

This is utter nonsense. Let's take the Vietnam war protests of 1969 that are so remembered to this day. They were massive and culturally influential. Yet they gave Nixon one of the biggest victories in US history. The problem is that protesters are often delusional and don't understand complex problems. The civil rights protests were very carefully and accurately led by MLK and this very careful narrative to educate white people was indeed successful. But the obvious hint is at the student protests about Palestine. That's one of the bad protests. First, it targets only Israel without laying any blame or responsibility on the Hamas (which started this specific conflict and is still holding civilian hostages). This also targets the entire country instead of the current leadership, which again is a bad target. The result of these protests is obvious from miles away: * The Israeli right gains power and becomes more aggressive - they use the protests to show how everyone hates Israel and there's no point in trying to satisfy the "antisemites" and the idiots. * Trump gains power - Biden can't control these people... He will make matters worse for the Palestinians. * Hamas is emboldened - they are the reason Palestinians don't have a state (which Israel offered twice to two separate Palestinian leaders). * Putin and Iran are emboldened by the weakness of the West. I understand why people are protesting. They want to help and have good intentions, they are also deeply misinformed (e.g. the UN just updated its casualty statistics which were VERY wrong and are probably still pretty far off). Also the Israeli government is indeed terrible, but Hamas is even worse. Uninformed protesters like this are making things worse for the moderate Palestinians and Israelis.

cristoperb 2y ago
> it targets only Israel without laying any blame or responsibility on the Hamas The reason students are asking their schools to divest from Israel but not from Hamas is because no western schools are funding Hamas or corporations that sell weapons to Hamas. You want protest camps set up to demand schools keep not doing that? > the UN just updated its casualty statistics I just looked them up (https://www.ochaopt.org/ https://www.ochaopt.org/). 34,904+ killed, 70,000 homes destroyed, and 1.7 million people displaced in Gaza. I agree Hamas is probably worse than the Israeli government in some sort of doctrinal or deontological sense, but in terms of actual atrocities committed, it is not even close at this point.
- invalidname 2y ago
  > You want protest camps set up to demand schools keep not doing that? No. I want protests to have the Israeli flag too. Acknowledge Israel has the right to exist. Also not rip out posters for the hostages that are held by Hamas to keep the war going. What do you hope to achieve by divesting from Israel? Make Jews feel persecuted. Mission accomplished. Make Hamas feel that pressure is being put on Israel. Again, success. This is blaming an entire country instead of the people responsible for the occupation and settlements. There are ways to target those. E.g. banning products from the settlements, or banning instituted from the settlements. These are things many Israelis can get behind. > I just looked them up They updated the ratio of civilians. Turns out the majority of those are adult male combatants. Not Women and Children like Hamas claimed and was parroted by the media.
  - cristoperb 2y ago
    > They updated the ratio of civilians. Turns out the majority of those are adult male combatants. As of yesterday, the UN is reporting that 60% of deaths are women, children, and the elderly. So even if you want to pretend that all adult men in Gaza are combatants, your minimization is verging on genocide denial. (And the total figures are "not including more than 10,000 reported missing or under the rubble" so the death stats are almost certainly low.) https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-222 https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-i...
    - invalidname 2y ago
      I guess they didn't update their site: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/r1lxlcjxr https://www.ynetnews.com/article/r1lxlcjxr
      - cristoperb 2y ago
        But that article reports the same numbers as currently on the UN site: "7,797 children (32%), and 4,959 women (20%.)" That's most of the fatalities.

cristoperb 2y ago

> it targets only Israel without laying any blame or responsibility on the Hamas The reason students are asking their schools to divest from Israel but not from Hamas is because no western schools are funding Hamas or corporations that sell weapons to Hamas. You want protest camps set up to demand schools keep not doing that? > the UN just updated its casualty statistics I just looked them up (https://www.ochaopt.org/ https://www.ochaopt.org/). 34,904+ killed, 70,000 homes destroyed, and 1.7 million people displaced in Gaza. I agree Hamas is probably worse than the Israeli government in some sort of doctrinal or deontological sense, but in terms of actual atrocities committed, it is not even close at this point.

invalidname 2y ago
> You want protest camps set up to demand schools keep not doing that? No. I want protests to have the Israeli flag too. Acknowledge Israel has the right to exist. Also not rip out posters for the hostages that are held by Hamas to keep the war going. What do you hope to achieve by divesting from Israel? Make Jews feel persecuted. Mission accomplished. Make Hamas feel that pressure is being put on Israel. Again, success. This is blaming an entire country instead of the people responsible for the occupation and settlements. There are ways to target those. E.g. banning products from the settlements, or banning instituted from the settlements. These are things many Israelis can get behind. > I just looked them up They updated the ratio of civilians. Turns out the majority of those are adult male combatants. Not Women and Children like Hamas claimed and was parroted by the media.
- cristoperb 2y ago
  > They updated the ratio of civilians. Turns out the majority of those are adult male combatants. As of yesterday, the UN is reporting that 60% of deaths are women, children, and the elderly. So even if you want to pretend that all adult men in Gaza are combatants, your minimization is verging on genocide denial. (And the total figures are "not including more than 10,000 reported missing or under the rubble" so the death stats are almost certainly low.) https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-222 https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-i...
  - invalidname 2y ago
    I guess they didn't update their site: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/r1lxlcjxr https://www.ynetnews.com/article/r1lxlcjxr
    - cristoperb 2y ago
      But that article reports the same numbers as currently on the UN site: "7,797 children (32%), and 4,959 women (20%.)" That's most of the fatalities.