5 ms·

All payment terminals down in the Netherlands

21 points by paulmist 2y ago

telesilla 2y ago
More amusing given many stores in the Netherlands no longer accept cash.
- hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
  While it maybe expedient for merchants, this worrying trend discriminates against the unbanked and creates a Hobson's choice requiring the leaving of metadata that can be used and abused.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - felsokning 2y ago
    > While it maybe expedient for merchants... Expediency is a gross over-simplification of why the cashless society is a growing tend. For example, it costs more wealth than the value of lower denominational coins to produce said coins.[1] There's a correlation between the decrease in financial-related crimes and cashless vendors.[2] It is believed that cashless systems lead to less tax evasion.[3] Having said this, I agree with the remainder of your statement - that it has the potential to discriminate against people who don't have and/or are unable to obtain bank accounts. [1] - https://archive.is/T7nz8 https://archive.is/T7nz8 [2] - https://archive.is/MMY2b https://archive.is/MMY2b [3] - https://archive.is/lCfNX https://archive.is/lCfNX
    - hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
      > Expediency is a gross over-simplification What's your problem? You selectively quoted a fraction of my statement and threw in a strawman. Merchants don't want to keep registers to be stolen from cashiers, to be robbed, to have to deal with counting cash, or deal with deposits. That's 4 good reasons in their minds, and I've dealt with all of these. Have you?
      - felsokning 2y ago
        > What's your problem? No problem. Why the hostility? > You selectively quoted a fraction of my statement and threw in a strawman. I disagreed with the first part of your statement and agreed with the second part. Are you only reading to respond and not to comprehend? Also, how are studies or facts "a strawman". What does dealing with those 4 things have to do with your initial gross oversimplification?
      - avery17 2y ago
        Counting the drawer and deposits take maybe 15 minutes a day. Its not difficult. Been running a small business for 10 mins and never had an issue with cash. God forbid someone robs us of the 300 bucks in the drawer. They can have it and insurance will cover it.
  - EdSchouten 2y ago
    At least in the Netherlands there are programs through which you can get a bank account, even if you are otherwise severely disadvantaged. https://www.basisbankrekening.nl/ https://www.basisbankrekening.nl/
    - citrin_ru 2y ago
      Don’t know about this specific program but there is an often overlooked disadvantaged category - immigrants (and I’m talking about legal immigrants). A typical catch-22 - to open a bank account you need an utility are a tax bill and to rent a place to live (and a month later get the first bill) you need a bank account. And good luck getting a proof of address if you are using short term rental where bills are paid by a landlord.
  - easyThrowaway 2y ago
    Banking is part of EU universal services. The privacy issue is troubling but large banks in EU can't refuse to offer a minimal free account for everyone.
    - avery17 2y ago
      They can close it if you overdraw it too much, which tends to happen when you're poor. Hence people remain unbanked. Not to mention being homeless and having no where to receive mail. They may not refuse but where are they gonna mail your cards?
      - hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
        In the US, anyone can receive mail even without an address or a post office box. It's called General Delivery. The format is: John Q. Smith General Delivery Fort Wayne, IA 46806 https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-General-Delivery https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-General-Delivery Furthermore, there are free and reduce rate PO Boxes available in limited circumstances: https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Is-there-mail-service-for-the-homeless https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Is-there-mail-service-for-the... And, for cases where "PO Boxes aren't accepted", there is a new format street address of the post office works with a PMB or # second line. https://postalpro.usps.com/PBSA https://postalpro.usps.com/PBSA
    - hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
      Interesting. In the US, we don't even have free healthcare unless we're dying from immediate injury, but then we're billed an amount that requires declaring bankruptcy. If any European would help a poor American claim asylum on political persecution, personal safety, and humanitarian grounds, let me know. Did you know that Social Security recipients in the State of Texas aren't even determined in Texas? SSA outsources DDS to Arkansas.
      - ranguna 2y ago
        What's stopping you from migrating?
mensetmanusman 2y ago
Did this last for 1 hour? I wonder how long it would have to last in a cashless society for people to revert back to paper IOU’s.

21 points by paulmist 2y ago

telesilla 2y ago

More amusing given many stores in the Netherlands no longer accept cash.

hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
While it maybe expedient for merchants, this worrying trend discriminates against the unbanked and creates a Hobson's choice requiring the leaving of metadata that can be used and abused.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- felsokning 2y ago
  > While it maybe expedient for merchants... Expediency is a gross over-simplification of why the cashless society is a growing tend. For example, it costs more wealth than the value of lower denominational coins to produce said coins.[1] There's a correlation between the decrease in financial-related crimes and cashless vendors.[2] It is believed that cashless systems lead to less tax evasion.[3] Having said this, I agree with the remainder of your statement - that it has the potential to discriminate against people who don't have and/or are unable to obtain bank accounts. [1] - https://archive.is/T7nz8 https://archive.is/T7nz8 [2] - https://archive.is/MMY2b https://archive.is/MMY2b [3] - https://archive.is/lCfNX https://archive.is/lCfNX
  - hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
    > Expediency is a gross over-simplification What's your problem? You selectively quoted a fraction of my statement and threw in a strawman. Merchants don't want to keep registers to be stolen from cashiers, to be robbed, to have to deal with counting cash, or deal with deposits. That's 4 good reasons in their minds, and I've dealt with all of these. Have you?
    - felsokning 2y ago
      > What's your problem? No problem. Why the hostility? > You selectively quoted a fraction of my statement and threw in a strawman. I disagreed with the first part of your statement and agreed with the second part. Are you only reading to respond and not to comprehend? Also, how are studies or facts "a strawman". What does dealing with those 4 things have to do with your initial gross oversimplification?
    - avery17 2y ago
      Counting the drawer and deposits take maybe 15 minutes a day. Its not difficult. Been running a small business for 10 mins and never had an issue with cash. God forbid someone robs us of the 300 bucks in the drawer. They can have it and insurance will cover it.
- EdSchouten 2y ago
  At least in the Netherlands there are programs through which you can get a bank account, even if you are otherwise severely disadvantaged. https://www.basisbankrekening.nl/ https://www.basisbankrekening.nl/
  - citrin_ru 2y ago
    Don’t know about this specific program but there is an often overlooked disadvantaged category - immigrants (and I’m talking about legal immigrants). A typical catch-22 - to open a bank account you need an utility are a tax bill and to rent a place to live (and a month later get the first bill) you need a bank account. And good luck getting a proof of address if you are using short term rental where bills are paid by a landlord.
- easyThrowaway 2y ago
  Banking is part of EU universal services. The privacy issue is troubling but large banks in EU can't refuse to offer a minimal free account for everyone.
  - avery17 2y ago
    They can close it if you overdraw it too much, which tends to happen when you're poor. Hence people remain unbanked. Not to mention being homeless and having no where to receive mail. They may not refuse but where are they gonna mail your cards?
    - hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
      In the US, anyone can receive mail even without an address or a post office box. It's called General Delivery. The format is: John Q. Smith General Delivery Fort Wayne, IA 46806 https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-General-Delivery https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-General-Delivery Furthermore, there are free and reduce rate PO Boxes available in limited circumstances: https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Is-there-mail-service-for-the-homeless https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Is-there-mail-service-for-the... And, for cases where "PO Boxes aren't accepted", there is a new format street address of the post office works with a PMB or # second line. https://postalpro.usps.com/PBSA https://postalpro.usps.com/PBSA
  - hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
    Interesting. In the US, we don't even have free healthcare unless we're dying from immediate injury, but then we're billed an amount that requires declaring bankruptcy. If any European would help a poor American claim asylum on political persecution, personal safety, and humanitarian grounds, let me know. Did you know that Social Security recipients in the State of Texas aren't even determined in Texas? SSA outsources DDS to Arkansas.
    - ranguna 2y ago
      What's stopping you from migrating?

mensetmanusman 2y ago

Did this last for 1 hour? I wonder how long it would have to last in a cashless society for people to revert back to paper IOU’s.