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> We’ve got this warped idea that a proper protest is when some people gather in some designated area that the authorities allow them to, and they don’t inconve

> We’ve got this warped idea that a proper protest is when some people gather in some designated area that the authorities allow them to, and they don’t inconvenience anyone. That’s absurd when you consider what a protest is about. OK, fine, but you also don't get to decide how other people interpret your actions. You can fuss and bother about how trivial it is to you that someone's commute got delayed by 10 minutes, but if you're pissing off the person you're trying to get your message to, you're still shooting yourself in the foot. Persuasion is contextual; you don't get to dictate someone else's feelings and you don't get to force them to see things your way.

bongodongobob 2y ago
Nope, that's the point. Protests aren't intended to gain allies. It's to put pressure on those in charge. Pissing people off and interrupting commerce is literally the point.
- trashtester 2y ago
  The protest itself may not be about gaining allies, but protests depend on being able to gain allies if those in charge meet them with enough force to stop them. If protests go too far, to the point where the general public will cheer for anyone putting the protesters in jail for a decade, the protest is going to be ineffective.
  - the_snooze 2y ago
    There's something profoundly insulting about protesters treating the general public as a simple means to an end, instead of potential allies to connect with. The way I see it, if I believe my cause is righteous, then I'd be doing it a deep disservice by presenting it in the most alienating way possible. I should want to bring people over to my side. Otherwise, it shows I'm not serious---that the cause itself is secondary to my conviction, that I'd rather be seen fighting than go home a victor.
    - bongodongobob 2y ago
      Ok well go protest in a place that isn't visible and doesn't cause any problems. Let me know how it works when no one can see or care. Protesting isn't holding signs. It's disrupting things. Look at the French and German protests right now. That's how you get change.
keybored 2y ago
That you can’t will other people into feeling a certain way seems quite besides the point. There’s first of all the point that the sibling comment made (bongodongobob). There’s also the second point of solidarity. Now for those who are too politically liberal to understand that word: it’s about standing together with your fellow person based on some commonality, knowing/trusting that they will also have your back in other contexts. Which could translate to bearing some discomfort because you sympathize with their cause or think that their cause is proximal to your own (see: first they came for X but I didn’t do anything because I’m not X). This can be seen even in my social democratic country when there is some large strike. Say airport workers. Then the media will immediately be on the prowl, asking leading questions to would-be vacationers about how horrible this strike must be. The more solidaristic ones may choose to bear that burden because they feel that they share a common cause.
maxglute 2y ago
Someone who can't be convinced to endure minor inconvenience for a cause is not someone worth persuading. >yon't get to dictate someone else's feelings and you don't get to force them to see things your way No, but you can certainly try to inconvenience them until they take action, whether that means pressuring government to capitulate or crackdown. Disruptive protests tend to already assumes it swayed enough minds to go disruptive, the ultimate goal is not to persuade fence sitters but persuade power.
xracy 2y ago
> if you're pissing off the person you're trying to get your message to, you're still shooting yourself in the foot. "Squeaky Wheels Get the Grease" And if they're inconveniencing you, suddenly the thing you care about is making them go away. And what's the best way to make them go away? To make your local politicians do something about them. Often times the demands are easier to capitulate to than to continue suffering the inconveniences that make your constituents upset that people are angry.

bongodongobob 2y ago

Nope, that's the point. Protests aren't intended to gain allies. It's to put pressure on those in charge. Pissing people off and interrupting commerce is literally the point.

trashtester 2y ago
The protest itself may not be about gaining allies, but protests depend on being able to gain allies if those in charge meet them with enough force to stop them. If protests go too far, to the point where the general public will cheer for anyone putting the protesters in jail for a decade, the protest is going to be ineffective.
- the_snooze 2y ago
  There's something profoundly insulting about protesters treating the general public as a simple means to an end, instead of potential allies to connect with. The way I see it, if I believe my cause is righteous, then I'd be doing it a deep disservice by presenting it in the most alienating way possible. I should want to bring people over to my side. Otherwise, it shows I'm not serious---that the cause itself is secondary to my conviction, that I'd rather be seen fighting than go home a victor.
  - bongodongobob 2y ago
    Ok well go protest in a place that isn't visible and doesn't cause any problems. Let me know how it works when no one can see or care. Protesting isn't holding signs. It's disrupting things. Look at the French and German protests right now. That's how you get change.

keybored 2y ago

That you can’t will other people into feeling a certain way seems quite besides the point. There’s first of all the point that the sibling comment made (bongodongobob). There’s also the second point of solidarity. Now for those who are too politically liberal to understand that word: it’s about standing together with your fellow person based on some commonality, knowing/trusting that they will also have your back in other contexts. Which could translate to bearing some discomfort because you sympathize with their cause or think that their cause is proximal to your own (see: first they came for X but I didn’t do anything because I’m not X). This can be seen even in my social democratic country when there is some large strike. Say airport workers. Then the media will immediately be on the prowl, asking leading questions to would-be vacationers about how horrible this strike must be. The more solidaristic ones may choose to bear that burden because they feel that they share a common cause.

maxglute 2y ago

Someone who can't be convinced to endure minor inconvenience for a cause is not someone worth persuading. >yon't get to dictate someone else's feelings and you don't get to force them to see things your way No, but you can certainly try to inconvenience them until they take action, whether that means pressuring government to capitulate or crackdown. Disruptive protests tend to already assumes it swayed enough minds to go disruptive, the ultimate goal is not to persuade fence sitters but persuade power.

xracy 2y ago

> if you're pissing off the person you're trying to get your message to, you're still shooting yourself in the foot. "Squeaky Wheels Get the Grease" And if they're inconveniencing you, suddenly the thing you care about is making them go away. And what's the best way to make them go away? To make your local politicians do something about them. Often times the demands are easier to capitulate to than to continue suffering the inconveniences that make your constituents upset that people are angry.