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And the other underlying problem implied there is that electric leaf blowers are only viable for household use. They are just so completely impractical for comm

And the other underlying problem implied there is that electric leaf blowers are only viable for household use. They are just so completely impractical for commercial use that no one will ever use them.

modeless 2y ago
I've seen plenty of companies using them. It's not even close to impossible. They're just not the majority.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
  Are these companies operating at scale? We have a couple in my city as well. But it's one guy maintaining their own fleet of equipment. Does the cost rival gas powered companies? The companies I'm aware of that offer this service specifically market it as a premium and appeal to eco friendly consumers that want the less noise and pollution, and are willing to pay more than double what it costs to have a gas powered company do it. Unfortunately, until the technology improves I think we have a tragedy of the commons scenario here, because gen pop is probably willing to trade the noise and air pollution for the cheaper service
  - mianos 2y ago
    Sydney City Council, a large council, uses electric blowers. They have a small backpack so the blowers are kept light even though they have a much larger battery for much longer operation. They look quite good to use. Certainly better than my heavy dual battery one. It is a solved problem.
kbenson 2y ago
Why? I'm sure they're less practical than the gas powered ones, but every tool system with their own battery standard seems to have one. Even if you had to have a few batteries charged in reserve, that seems more like slightly more expensive and annoying than utterly impractical. Am I missing something?
- slimsag 2y ago
  They're not even in the same ballpark My 80v electric blower with a heavy battery runs for 21 minutes. A gas blower with 1.5 gallons of fuel will last 10 hours. A ban on gas blowers - or blowing in general - will only harm minorities already underpaid, often under the table.
  - modeless 2y ago
    Those minorities get the worst of the air pollution and dangerous noise levels themselves. And you have to add the externality of everyone else being affected by the pollution before you weigh the costs and benefits. Of course landscapers shouldn't be expected to switch voluntarily when it puts them at a competitive disadvantage, it's a textbook case of externality needing regulations.
  - kbenson 2y ago
    > My 80v electric blower with a heavy battery runs for 21 minutes. A gas blower with 1.5 gallons of fuel will last 10 hours. I found backbpack models (and if we're comparing professional services that's what seems we should compare) that claim 60 minuntes on high at 800cfm+ and 20 hours on low, with dual charger systems you can buy to supplement. I saw numbers quoting that most professional leaf blowers go through about 0.43 gallons of fuel an hour. The top backpack blowers I looked up didn't even have a 1.5 gallon tank. The Echo PB-9010T has a 83.8 fl. oz. tank. The Stihl BR 800 C-E Magnum has a 67.6 oz. tank. The SCHRÖDER SR-9900X 80cc has a tank size of 75 oz. If you have to stop to refuel every hour or so anyway, swapping out a battery that's been charging doesn't seem like a big inconvenience. > A ban on gas blowers - or blowing in general - will only harm minorities already underpaid, often under the table. I'm not sure we should be avoiding legislation meant to protect the public in general (air and noise pollution) because of possible affects to some specific subcategory (leaf blowing) of an industry (landscaping) which happens to employ minorities in a higher percentage than other industries. If we were to always do that, then we'd rarely ever have any useful public protections, would we? How many professional leaf blowers per capita do you think we have, anyway, and if it costs more for everyone since it's regulated, why would the impact really be that great, since it should just mean they charge more?
- 2y ago
shagmin 2y ago
...yet where I live all the parks, public landscaping, etc., that are owned by the municipality are maintained with electric leaf blowers except for areas where they have it contracted out and then it's a mix. It's totally possible, but I think the larger problem is the sunk money on equipment that doesn't need to be replaced any time soon.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
  I've seen a couple businesses in my city that use electric. It's their main selling point. But in both the cases I'm aware of it's literally just one guy maintaining his own tiny fleet of equipment. And it's more than double what it would cost to get a bigger landscaping company to do it. I would really like to see an example of a landscaping company do this at scale, because I haven't seen it. The equipment itself is not even really that big of an investment to my understanding. A good electric leaf blower and battery is probably equivalent or cheaper than its gas powered equivalent. It's the logistics and maintenance burden of having to constantly charge, swap, replace, and maintain the batteries. Kind of why electric cars only became viable in the last 20 years. The technology has been around a long time, it's just only now viable enough due to capacity restrictions. Due to the form factor and energy requirements, it may be a long time before that happens to replace two and four stroke motors for commercial use cases.
kjkjadksj 2y ago
They are also nearly as loud to my ear as a gas one. Turns out blowing air is noisy.
- modeless 2y ago
  Maybe they sound loud when you're using them but the difference is night and day when you're a bit farther away. I haven't heard a single electric blower that's louder than the quietest gas blower. And honestly the air pollution is my bigger complaint.
  - tracker1 2y ago
    Banning air freight would be more effective in terms of reducing pollution.
    - modeless 2y ago
      I'm not talking about CO2 for global warming here, it's negligible. This is local air pollution, polluting the air I breathe in my house and on my street. The other big offender in this category is wood smoke from fireplaces, which I would also be in favor of banning, though I understand this would be extremely unpopular (I know, I love a good fire too). People don't realize that wood smoke is every bit as harmful as cigarette smoke and much worse than modern car exhaust. Many (most?) days in winter around here fireplace smoke is by far the biggest contributor to general poor air quality, and then there are the days when my neighbor's chimney smoke blows directly into my yard where my children want to play, for hours...
      - tracker1 2y ago
        The city I'm in banned fireplaces in new houses a few decades ago. Of course, Phoenix is too hot far more than it resembles cold, and most will stay inside as much as possible for at least half the year.
- kylebenzle 2y ago
  I guess I'm glad we don't use your ear as a way to measure sound levels then because we would all be way off. Gas-powered leaf blowers typically operate around 90-100 decibels (dB), while electric leaf blowers usually range from 60-70 dB.
duped 2y ago
So use a rake and broom, it's what I do when I clear my yard and driveway. Edit: and for that matter we probably need to stop clearing so much yard waste. My village has crazy expensive yard waste tags (with free pickup on select weeks of the year, usually fall) and everyone agrees it's not worth it to bag grass and leaves for the better part of the year. Unsurprisingly we have tons of pollinators, healthy firefly populations, and plenty of critters that feed on all the bugs. Not to mention during spring, every one who's too lazy to manicure their lawn sees blooms with dandelion, clover, ground ivy, and columbine. My block looks like a meadow for April and May with zero effort.
- ssl-3 2y ago
  It seems that the value of clearing yard waste depends on the local conditions. Some climates produce layers of thatch from simple lawn clippings, for instance, which can be problematic. And for some people, fallen tree leaves can be a real concern. My lawns (all of which have been in Ohio) have never had these issues. I just mow the grass. Stuff (leaves, grass, whatever other stuff is growing or present) gets chopped up, either with a "mulching" mower or a side-discharge mower (and it'd probably work about the same with a reel mower). It degrades quickly-enough in-situ that neither lawn clippings nor tree leaves are ever things that are a concern. (The biggest lawn-oriented issue I ever had was that of having a large number of black walnut trees; the walnuts themselves were unseen ankle-killing traps and/or projectiles in the fall, and the abundance of food lead to an abundance of squirrels and thus fleas.) But as I understand it, some others are not so lucky. I'm not familiar enough with the problems because I've never had any problems, but I understand that they do exist in some areas. (Heavily-manicured deliberately-monoculture lawns are a different thing that I'm not even attempting to address here.)
- Ferret7446 2y ago
  Uh, what? You realize the problem with electric blowers is that they don't have enough power for commercial use compared to gas blowers, so your suggestion is to use a rake?
  - duped 2y ago

modeless 2y ago

I've seen plenty of companies using them. It's not even close to impossible. They're just not the majority.

SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
Are these companies operating at scale? We have a couple in my city as well. But it's one guy maintaining their own fleet of equipment. Does the cost rival gas powered companies? The companies I'm aware of that offer this service specifically market it as a premium and appeal to eco friendly consumers that want the less noise and pollution, and are willing to pay more than double what it costs to have a gas powered company do it. Unfortunately, until the technology improves I think we have a tragedy of the commons scenario here, because gen pop is probably willing to trade the noise and air pollution for the cheaper service
- mianos 2y ago
  Sydney City Council, a large council, uses electric blowers. They have a small backpack so the blowers are kept light even though they have a much larger battery for much longer operation. They look quite good to use. Certainly better than my heavy dual battery one. It is a solved problem.

kbenson 2y ago

Why? I'm sure they're less practical than the gas powered ones, but every tool system with their own battery standard seems to have one. Even if you had to have a few batteries charged in reserve, that seems more like slightly more expensive and annoying than utterly impractical. Am I missing something?

slimsag 2y ago
They're not even in the same ballpark My 80v electric blower with a heavy battery runs for 21 minutes. A gas blower with 1.5 gallons of fuel will last 10 hours. A ban on gas blowers - or blowing in general - will only harm minorities already underpaid, often under the table.
- modeless 2y ago
  Those minorities get the worst of the air pollution and dangerous noise levels themselves. And you have to add the externality of everyone else being affected by the pollution before you weigh the costs and benefits. Of course landscapers shouldn't be expected to switch voluntarily when it puts them at a competitive disadvantage, it's a textbook case of externality needing regulations.
- kbenson 2y ago
  > My 80v electric blower with a heavy battery runs for 21 minutes. A gas blower with 1.5 gallons of fuel will last 10 hours. I found backbpack models (and if we're comparing professional services that's what seems we should compare) that claim 60 minuntes on high at 800cfm+ and 20 hours on low, with dual charger systems you can buy to supplement. I saw numbers quoting that most professional leaf blowers go through about 0.43 gallons of fuel an hour. The top backpack blowers I looked up didn't even have a 1.5 gallon tank. The Echo PB-9010T has a 83.8 fl. oz. tank. The Stihl BR 800 C-E Magnum has a 67.6 oz. tank. The SCHRÖDER SR-9900X 80cc has a tank size of 75 oz. If you have to stop to refuel every hour or so anyway, swapping out a battery that's been charging doesn't seem like a big inconvenience. > A ban on gas blowers - or blowing in general - will only harm minorities already underpaid, often under the table. I'm not sure we should be avoiding legislation meant to protect the public in general (air and noise pollution) because of possible affects to some specific subcategory (leaf blowing) of an industry (landscaping) which happens to employ minorities in a higher percentage than other industries. If we were to always do that, then we'd rarely ever have any useful public protections, would we? How many professional leaf blowers per capita do you think we have, anyway, and if it costs more for everyone since it's regulated, why would the impact really be that great, since it should just mean they charge more?
2y ago

shagmin 2y ago

...yet where I live all the parks, public landscaping, etc., that are owned by the municipality are maintained with electric leaf blowers except for areas where they have it contracted out and then it's a mix. It's totally possible, but I think the larger problem is the sunk money on equipment that doesn't need to be replaced any time soon.

SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
I've seen a couple businesses in my city that use electric. It's their main selling point. But in both the cases I'm aware of it's literally just one guy maintaining his own tiny fleet of equipment. And it's more than double what it would cost to get a bigger landscaping company to do it. I would really like to see an example of a landscaping company do this at scale, because I haven't seen it. The equipment itself is not even really that big of an investment to my understanding. A good electric leaf blower and battery is probably equivalent or cheaper than its gas powered equivalent. It's the logistics and maintenance burden of having to constantly charge, swap, replace, and maintain the batteries. Kind of why electric cars only became viable in the last 20 years. The technology has been around a long time, it's just only now viable enough due to capacity restrictions. Due to the form factor and energy requirements, it may be a long time before that happens to replace two and four stroke motors for commercial use cases.

kjkjadksj 2y ago

They are also nearly as loud to my ear as a gas one. Turns out blowing air is noisy.

modeless 2y ago
Maybe they sound loud when you're using them but the difference is night and day when you're a bit farther away. I haven't heard a single electric blower that's louder than the quietest gas blower. And honestly the air pollution is my bigger complaint.
- tracker1 2y ago
  Banning air freight would be more effective in terms of reducing pollution.
  - modeless 2y ago
    I'm not talking about CO2 for global warming here, it's negligible. This is local air pollution, polluting the air I breathe in my house and on my street. The other big offender in this category is wood smoke from fireplaces, which I would also be in favor of banning, though I understand this would be extremely unpopular (I know, I love a good fire too). People don't realize that wood smoke is every bit as harmful as cigarette smoke and much worse than modern car exhaust. Many (most?) days in winter around here fireplace smoke is by far the biggest contributor to general poor air quality, and then there are the days when my neighbor's chimney smoke blows directly into my yard where my children want to play, for hours...
    - tracker1 2y ago
      The city I'm in banned fireplaces in new houses a few decades ago. Of course, Phoenix is too hot far more than it resembles cold, and most will stay inside as much as possible for at least half the year.
kylebenzle 2y ago
I guess I'm glad we don't use your ear as a way to measure sound levels then because we would all be way off. Gas-powered leaf blowers typically operate around 90-100 decibels (dB), while electric leaf blowers usually range from 60-70 dB.

duped 2y ago

So use a rake and broom, it's what I do when I clear my yard and driveway. Edit: and for that matter we probably need to stop clearing so much yard waste. My village has crazy expensive yard waste tags (with free pickup on select weeks of the year, usually fall) and everyone agrees it's not worth it to bag grass and leaves for the better part of the year. Unsurprisingly we have tons of pollinators, healthy firefly populations, and plenty of critters that feed on all the bugs. Not to mention during spring, every one who's too lazy to manicure their lawn sees blooms with dandelion, clover, ground ivy, and columbine. My block looks like a meadow for April and May with zero effort.

ssl-3 2y ago
It seems that the value of clearing yard waste depends on the local conditions. Some climates produce layers of thatch from simple lawn clippings, for instance, which can be problematic. And for some people, fallen tree leaves can be a real concern. My lawns (all of which have been in Ohio) have never had these issues. I just mow the grass. Stuff (leaves, grass, whatever other stuff is growing or present) gets chopped up, either with a "mulching" mower or a side-discharge mower (and it'd probably work about the same with a reel mower). It degrades quickly-enough in-situ that neither lawn clippings nor tree leaves are ever things that are a concern. (The biggest lawn-oriented issue I ever had was that of having a large number of black walnut trees; the walnuts themselves were unseen ankle-killing traps and/or projectiles in the fall, and the abundance of food lead to an abundance of squirrels and thus fleas.) But as I understand it, some others are not so lucky. I'm not familiar enough with the problems because I've never had any problems, but I understand that they do exist in some areas. (Heavily-manicured deliberately-monoculture lawns are a different thing that I'm not even attempting to address here.)
Ferret7446 2y ago
Uh, what? You realize the problem with electric blowers is that they don't have enough power for commercial use compared to gas blowers, so your suggestion is to use a rake?
- duped 2y ago