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Note that Haidt's work is... disputed, to say the least. https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-coddling-of-the-american-parent https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-co

Note that Haidt's work is... disputed, to say the least. https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-coddling-of-the-american-parent https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-coddling-of-the-american-p...

robertlagrant 2y ago
Everyone's work is disputed. What in particular do you want to say that you disagree with in Heidt's work, and what's your justification?
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  The article seems to lay that out fairly effectively. What in particular do you want to say that you disagree with in Masnick's work, and what's your justification?
  - vixen99 2y ago
    You mean you can't summarize it in a sentence of two?
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      You mean like "Jonathan Haidt’s new book 'The Anxious Generation' blames youth mental health issues on social media in a way that’s easy, wrong, and dangerous."? (The subtitle of the article.) The poster upthread is demanding specifics that are contained in the very article they're asking for specifics from.
      - robertlagrant 2y ago
        > in a way that’s easy, wrong, and dangerous These aren't specifics. It sounds like "here're the conclusions you should memorise; if you can be bothered to read the article that'd be fine."
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        You asked for specifics. The other guy asked for a one-sentence summary. The specifics you seek are in the article. As an example: > Looking at suicide rates (which are more indicative of actual depression rates, rather than self-reported data, given the decreasing stigma associated with admitting to dealing with mental health issues), the numbers show that in many countries it has remained flat or decreased over the past 20 years. Indeed, in countries like France, Ireland, Denmark, Spain, and New Zealand, you see a noticeable decline in youth suicide rates. If social media were inherently causing an increase in depression, that would be an unlikely result. or: > Specifically, they note new guidance in the U.S. under the Affordable Care Act in 2011 that increased screening of adolescent girls for depression (the rise in depression rates for adolescent girls being key to Haidt’s argument), and a second change in instructing clinicians to record suicidal ideation differently than in the past. Do you disagree with these specific criticisms?
        robertlagrant 2y ago
        No, not particularly, (although I would need to see more to know if the first claim is true) and what you just did is just a couple of sentences. I just don't like it when people link to potentially-polemics to be waded through, rather than do what you did in your most recent comment. If you disagree with that, fair enough, but I didn't anticipate that that preference would be an emotive topic for you. Apologies for any upset caused in that regard.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        I'm simply a bit baffled at someone meeting a comment saying essentially "this is disputed, here's a collection of specific critiques" would be met with "you didn't provide any specific critiques". I found the article easy to skim, with well-linked sources throughout. Again, it already contained exactly what you were asking for.
        robertlagrant 2y ago
        > saying essentially "this is disputed, here's a collection of specific critiques" would be met with "you didn't provide any specific critiques". That would indeed be baffling, but did not happen here.
red_admiral 2y ago
In principle, the truth could be either of a. social media is strongly positive for kids, and Haidt is at best cherry-picking evidence and at worst being actively dishonest. b. social media is strongly negative for kids, but there's lots of money involved and so people are trying to shut down anyone who says otherwise, just like the tobacco industry kept yelling "it's disputed! it's not proven!"
- pjc50 2y ago
  c. social media is negative and positive, probably averaging negative, but people writing pop-sci tend to be hacks. It's possible for someone to be directionally correct and all their evidence is garbage; a common problem in progressive social causes.
- dathinab 2y ago
  The world in general tend to not work in extrema. I think there is a good reason Haidts work is disputed, but that doesn't mean there is no truth in it either.

Note that Haidt's work is... disputed, to say the least. https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-coddling-of-the-american-parent https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-coddling-of-the-american-p...

robertlagrant 2y ago

Everyone's work is disputed. What in particular do you want to say that you disagree with in Heidt's work, and what's your justification?

ceejayoz 2y ago
The article seems to lay that out fairly effectively. What in particular do you want to say that you disagree with in Masnick's work, and what's your justification?
- vixen99 2y ago
  You mean you can't summarize it in a sentence of two?
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    You mean like "Jonathan Haidt’s new book 'The Anxious Generation' blames youth mental health issues on social media in a way that’s easy, wrong, and dangerous."? (The subtitle of the article.) The poster upthread is demanding specifics that are contained in the very article they're asking for specifics from.
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      > in a way that’s easy, wrong, and dangerous These aren't specifics. It sounds like "here're the conclusions you should memorise; if you can be bothered to read the article that'd be fine."
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        You asked for specifics. The other guy asked for a one-sentence summary. The specifics you seek are in the article. As an example: > Looking at suicide rates (which are more indicative of actual depression rates, rather than self-reported data, given the decreasing stigma associated with admitting to dealing with mental health issues), the numbers show that in many countries it has remained flat or decreased over the past 20 years. Indeed, in countries like France, Ireland, Denmark, Spain, and New Zealand, you see a noticeable decline in youth suicide rates. If social media were inherently causing an increase in depression, that would be an unlikely result. or: > Specifically, they note new guidance in the U.S. under the Affordable Care Act in 2011 that increased screening of adolescent girls for depression (the rise in depression rates for adolescent girls being key to Haidt’s argument), and a second change in instructing clinicians to record suicidal ideation differently than in the past. Do you disagree with these specific criticisms?
        robertlagrant 2y ago
        No, not particularly, (although I would need to see more to know if the first claim is true) and what you just did is just a couple of sentences. I just don't like it when people link to potentially-polemics to be waded through, rather than do what you did in your most recent comment. If you disagree with that, fair enough, but I didn't anticipate that that preference would be an emotive topic for you. Apologies for any upset caused in that regard.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        I'm simply a bit baffled at someone meeting a comment saying essentially "this is disputed, here's a collection of specific critiques" would be met with "you didn't provide any specific critiques". I found the article easy to skim, with well-linked sources throughout. Again, it already contained exactly what you were asking for.
        robertlagrant 2y ago
        > saying essentially "this is disputed, here's a collection of specific critiques" would be met with "you didn't provide any specific critiques". That would indeed be baffling, but did not happen here.

red_admiral 2y ago

In principle, the truth could be either of a. social media is strongly positive for kids, and Haidt is at best cherry-picking evidence and at worst being actively dishonest. b. social media is strongly negative for kids, but there's lots of money involved and so people are trying to shut down anyone who says otherwise, just like the tobacco industry kept yelling "it's disputed! it's not proven!"

pjc50 2y ago
c. social media is negative and positive, probably averaging negative, but people writing pop-sci tend to be hacks. It's possible for someone to be directionally correct and all their evidence is garbage; a common problem in progressive social causes.
dathinab 2y ago
The world in general tend to not work in extrema. I think there is a good reason Haidts work is disputed, but that doesn't mean there is no truth in it either.