5 ms·

My Sony HB-F1XV

86 points by ingve 2y ago

anonzzzies 2y ago
It is a great machine: I have multiple of them and they are my favorites.
DrNosferatu 2y ago
It seems MSX doesn’t exactly have Atari joystick ports but instead PC-Engine compatible. (of course, this platform came later)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
whywhywhywhy 2y ago
So disappointing not being able to click the images through to high res versions
- detritus 2y ago
  What did you expect? It's an 8-bit machine. - ed: Turns out this one's a 16-bit machine? Anyway.
  - mrandish 2y ago
    No, the CPU is still an 8-bit Z80. It does have an upgraded graphics card in an expansion slot with a Yamaha v9990 - the next version of the v9958 graphics chip built into all MSX2+ machines. Both chips have some clever display modes which can generate "16-bit type" graphics (really 15-bit + overlay (if supported in hardware)). Those modes work by using YUV-like encoding and are similar in concept to the Amiga's HAM mode. Remarkably advanced stuff for an 80s 8-bit home computer!
    - detritus 2y ago
      Sure, that was my takeaway too but my disliked half-arsed quip about graphics fidelity would apply to the 16-bit graphics aspect :) I remember reading about MSX back in the old days, when I was transitioning from a Spectrum to an Amiga, but I genuinely had no idea how far that ecosystem evolved. A shame for it, and the Amiga, that they shared the same timeline as the in-hindsight-unstoppable MS-DOS PC-Compatible juggernaut... .
forinti 2y ago
It's a bit disappointing that Sony made the beautiful HB-101 and then decided to make this model look so industrial.
totetsu 2y ago
I walked past a shop in Yokohama selling things like this in their new boxes once. Then never saw it open again. It was like a time slip.
samdung 2y ago
The beauty about this is it was made in 1989 and it still works. Planned obsolescence was not discovered then.
- gambiting 2y ago
  And 99% of these are in landfills somewhere, you are seeing one preserved example. It's a survivorship bias in its full glory.
  - RetroTechie 2y ago
    Sure some of these ended up in landfills. But way, way less than 99%. ~10y after release, such old computers had use-value. Broken? Repair or use for spare parts. As they get older, owners understand they have collector's value. And they do - see eg. eBay prices. Even a lowly ZX Spectrum easily fetches >$50 these days. On top of that: the machine discussed never was a cheap one. Not when new, not now. Not that many MSX2+'s were built. Never mind that most old home computers are Robust. It's usually mechanics like connectors (easy to fix), keyboards (not so easy) or power supplies (many options there).
    - The_Colonel 2y ago
      > Sure some of these ended up in landfills. But way, way less than 99%. It's a guess as good as anyone's, but I'd say the 99% is pretty close to the truth - either in landfill or forgotten in the attic, unused for many years/decades. Only a small number of enthusiasts would continue using them.
    - gambiting 2y ago
      >> Even a lowly ZX Spectrum easily fetches >$50 these days. Because there are fewer and fewer of them left. Look at something like Pokemon Yellow GBC carts - huge collector item, yet still selling for very cheap on ebay. Why? Because Nintendo made 500 billion of these things and they generally don't break down. Old computers however do, and while it's usually something "simple"(if you know how to use a soldering iron) like a burst capacitor, most people wouldn't even bother.
raymond_goo 2y ago
Please make a Video about it!
xgkickt 2y ago
I'd like to see Microsoft turn the xbox into a new MSX. Define a min spec, provide the OS and infrastructure, and let others build them.
- Narishma 2y ago
  What would they get out of it?
  - xgkickt 2y ago
    I don't know, get out of retail hardware and potentially increase market share by allowing manufacturers to tailor devices to their respective markets? I'd just like to see more variety tbh (look at the plethora of handheld PCs), brought with a heavy dose of nostalgia for the home computer days.
    - Narishma 2y ago
      See my reply to the other post.
  - glimshe 2y ago
    The "OS and infrastructure", alongside whatever certification program to call it a "XSX", would require the use of Microsoft's XBOX game store. Microsoft would make a cut on any sales plus their own first party titles.
    - Narishma 2y ago
      So basically the Steam Machines or the 3DO concepts. We know they don't work for the manufacturers because they can't be priced competitively against regular consoles that can subsidize hardware with game sales.
      - toast0 2y ago
        Maybe it could work if you're a registered XSX manufacturer, you get a cut of game sales. Since it'd probably be a digital only system, it's possible to administer in a way that the 3DO couldn't. AFAIK, Valve didn't do this for Steam Machines.
dtagames 2y ago
What a beautiful piece of kit. I lived in Spain as an exchange student in the 80's and these high-end MSX machines were always in my dreams.
mrandish 2y ago
Very nice! As a collector of classic all-in-one 80s home computers, I think the MSX2+ platform was the ultimate evolution of the 8-bit computer. I own a dozen or so MSX machines including a couple MSX2+ (including the Yamaha with music keyboard peripheral!). It's truly a shame the MSX3 platform never shipped as it would have been fascinating. I think your expansion choices do get you very close to MSX3. Sadly, there's virtually no software that uses the enhanced capabilities of the v9990 graphics chip or the OPL4 audio chip. I don't use my MSX machines much as I also don't understand Japanese. I wish the MSX platform had shipped in the US so the OS was localized and more English software created. I'm sure MSFT must have built full English ROM versions in parallel with the Japanese ROMs - but there was no machine to ship them in. In the realm of alternate-reality machines which could have existed but never did, my pick for "Ultimate 8-bit" would be a machine very much like you've assembled: v9990 for graphics, OPL4 for audio but instead of a Z80 for CPU, it'd have a Hitachi 6309 at 3.58 MHz (a compatible but enhanced version of Motorola's fantastic 6809 with an expanded instruction set (DIV!), higher clock and faster IPC). The 6809 is clearly the legendary Motorola 68000's immediate 8-bit ancestor, so it had a similarly elegant architecture with a highly orthogonal instruction set, powerful indirect addressing modes, excellent interrupt architecture as well as separate user and system stacks. This made it ideal for position-independent, re-entrant, multitasking code. It had much of the same DNA that led to the 68000 later being revered as "the most fun to program 16-bit CPU". I think it's pretty inarguably the best of the 8-bit generation - and the 6309 was the best version of it. Apple even initially planned for the Mac to be a 6809 machine, writing early versions of the Mac OS and apps on it. Unfortunately, none of the 6809 consumer machines that actually shipped (Radio Shack, Dragon, Thompson, etc) paired the CPU with anywhere near then-current state-of-the-art graphics or sound chips. That would have been some machine if it had shipped in 1988 - basically an inexpensive 8-bit Amiga Jr. I imagine the demo scene would still be having a field day with it.
- Keyframe 2y ago
  I own quite a few, what's now called retro, machines and a lot of games. However, I still "need" to get two - msx(2) and x68k. If you could have one MSX2+, like the ultimate MSX, which one you'd get? I was eyeing hitbit XV and pimp it out. as for x68k it'd be a XVI machine (not compact of course).

86 points by ingve 2y ago

It is a great machine: I have multiple of them and they are my favorites.

It seems MSX doesn’t exactly have Atari joystick ports but instead PC-Engine compatible. (of course, this platform came later)

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

whywhywhywhy 2y ago

So disappointing not being able to click the images through to high res versions

detritus 2y ago
What did you expect? It's an 8-bit machine. - ed: Turns out this one's a 16-bit machine? Anyway.
- mrandish 2y ago
  No, the CPU is still an 8-bit Z80. It does have an upgraded graphics card in an expansion slot with a Yamaha v9990 - the next version of the v9958 graphics chip built into all MSX2+ machines. Both chips have some clever display modes which can generate "16-bit type" graphics (really 15-bit + overlay (if supported in hardware)). Those modes work by using YUV-like encoding and are similar in concept to the Amiga's HAM mode. Remarkably advanced stuff for an 80s 8-bit home computer!
  - detritus 2y ago
    Sure, that was my takeaway too but my disliked half-arsed quip about graphics fidelity would apply to the 16-bit graphics aspect :) I remember reading about MSX back in the old days, when I was transitioning from a Spectrum to an Amiga, but I genuinely had no idea how far that ecosystem evolved. A shame for it, and the Amiga, that they shared the same timeline as the in-hindsight-unstoppable MS-DOS PC-Compatible juggernaut... .

forinti 2y ago

It's a bit disappointing that Sony made the beautiful HB-101 and then decided to make this model look so industrial.

totetsu 2y ago

I walked past a shop in Yokohama selling things like this in their new boxes once. Then never saw it open again. It was like a time slip.

samdung 2y ago

The beauty about this is it was made in 1989 and it still works. Planned obsolescence was not discovered then.

gambiting 2y ago
And 99% of these are in landfills somewhere, you are seeing one preserved example. It's a survivorship bias in its full glory.
- RetroTechie 2y ago
  Sure some of these ended up in landfills. But way, way less than 99%. ~10y after release, such old computers had use-value. Broken? Repair or use for spare parts. As they get older, owners understand they have collector's value. And they do - see eg. eBay prices. Even a lowly ZX Spectrum easily fetches >$50 these days. On top of that: the machine discussed never was a cheap one. Not when new, not now. Not that many MSX2+'s were built. Never mind that most old home computers are Robust. It's usually mechanics like connectors (easy to fix), keyboards (not so easy) or power supplies (many options there).
  - The_Colonel 2y ago
    > Sure some of these ended up in landfills. But way, way less than 99%. It's a guess as good as anyone's, but I'd say the 99% is pretty close to the truth - either in landfill or forgotten in the attic, unused for many years/decades. Only a small number of enthusiasts would continue using them.
  - gambiting 2y ago
    >> Even a lowly ZX Spectrum easily fetches >$50 these days. Because there are fewer and fewer of them left. Look at something like Pokemon Yellow GBC carts - huge collector item, yet still selling for very cheap on ebay. Why? Because Nintendo made 500 billion of these things and they generally don't break down. Old computers however do, and while it's usually something "simple"(if you know how to use a soldering iron) like a burst capacitor, most people wouldn't even bother.

raymond_goo 2y ago

Please make a Video about it!

xgkickt 2y ago

I'd like to see Microsoft turn the xbox into a new MSX. Define a min spec, provide the OS and infrastructure, and let others build them.

Narishma 2y ago
What would they get out of it?
- xgkickt 2y ago
  I don't know, get out of retail hardware and potentially increase market share by allowing manufacturers to tailor devices to their respective markets? I'd just like to see more variety tbh (look at the plethora of handheld PCs), brought with a heavy dose of nostalgia for the home computer days.
  - Narishma 2y ago
    See my reply to the other post.
- glimshe 2y ago
  The "OS and infrastructure", alongside whatever certification program to call it a "XSX", would require the use of Microsoft's XBOX game store. Microsoft would make a cut on any sales plus their own first party titles.
  - Narishma 2y ago
    So basically the Steam Machines or the 3DO concepts. We know they don't work for the manufacturers because they can't be priced competitively against regular consoles that can subsidize hardware with game sales.
    - toast0 2y ago
      Maybe it could work if you're a registered XSX manufacturer, you get a cut of game sales. Since it'd probably be a digital only system, it's possible to administer in a way that the 3DO couldn't. AFAIK, Valve didn't do this for Steam Machines.

dtagames 2y ago

What a beautiful piece of kit. I lived in Spain as an exchange student in the 80's and these high-end MSX machines were always in my dreams.

mrandish 2y ago

Very nice! As a collector of classic all-in-one 80s home computers, I think the MSX2+ platform was the ultimate evolution of the 8-bit computer. I own a dozen or so MSX machines including a couple MSX2+ (including the Yamaha with music keyboard peripheral!). It's truly a shame the MSX3 platform never shipped as it would have been fascinating. I think your expansion choices do get you very close to MSX3. Sadly, there's virtually no software that uses the enhanced capabilities of the v9990 graphics chip or the OPL4 audio chip. I don't use my MSX machines much as I also don't understand Japanese. I wish the MSX platform had shipped in the US so the OS was localized and more English software created. I'm sure MSFT must have built full English ROM versions in parallel with the Japanese ROMs - but there was no machine to ship them in. In the realm of alternate-reality machines which could have existed but never did, my pick for "Ultimate 8-bit" would be a machine very much like you've assembled: v9990 for graphics, OPL4 for audio but instead of a Z80 for CPU, it'd have a Hitachi 6309 at 3.58 MHz (a compatible but enhanced version of Motorola's fantastic 6809 with an expanded instruction set (DIV!), higher clock and faster IPC). The 6809 is clearly the legendary Motorola 68000's immediate 8-bit ancestor, so it had a similarly elegant architecture with a highly orthogonal instruction set, powerful indirect addressing modes, excellent interrupt architecture as well as separate user and system stacks. This made it ideal for position-independent, re-entrant, multitasking code. It had much of the same DNA that led to the 68000 later being revered as "the most fun to program 16-bit CPU". I think it's pretty inarguably the best of the 8-bit generation - and the 6309 was the best version of it. Apple even initially planned for the Mac to be a 6809 machine, writing early versions of the Mac OS and apps on it. Unfortunately, none of the 6809 consumer machines that actually shipped (Radio Shack, Dragon, Thompson, etc) paired the CPU with anywhere near then-current state-of-the-art graphics or sound chips. That would have been some machine if it had shipped in 1988 - basically an inexpensive 8-bit Amiga Jr. I imagine the demo scene would still be having a field day with it.

Keyframe 2y ago
I own quite a few, what's now called retro, machines and a lot of games. However, I still "need" to get two - msx(2) and x68k. If you could have one MSX2+, like the ultimate MSX, which one you'd get? I was eyeing hitbit XV and pimp it out. as for x68k it'd be a XVI machine (not compact of course).