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I can understand why they made this policy but it feels a bit like the “Red flag laws” requiring motorcars to have a person with a flag walking in front. There

I can understand why they made this policy but it feels a bit like the “Red flag laws” requiring motorcars to have a person with a flag walking in front. There will be a time in not-so-distant future when people look back at this kind of policy as silly.

colechristensen 2y ago
For the present though, copyright and ownership when it comes to generated content is very much unsettled.
lmm 2y ago
> “Red flag laws” requiring motorcars to have a person with a flag walking in front With the amount of people getting killed by careless drivers, we should bring those back, at least in cities.
oofbey 2y ago
"Not-so-distant" indeed. IMHO this sounds just like banning people from using spell checkers when writing documentation. Legal paranoia aside, it's completely untenable in even the short term.
fargle 2y ago
i doubt it. it's easy to draw an analogy to early cars, or any kind of tech. revolution and say: "ahah, these folks are just like the Luddites, pbththth" this is fundamentally different. this is a machine, a mathematical equation, that converts enormous amounts of history and facts into a facsimile of creation, thought, expression. it does it convincingly in very small doses, but it doesn't do it all that well. unless your task is to regurgitate something relatively mechanical. a car was something new. a mechanical horse. it wasn't some distillation and averaging of every extant horse into some "perfect" mutant horse. it was genuinely new. it also wasn't a mirage or a hallucination. AI is not a creative force, rather reductive. it's at best a tool. so if you want to copyright something or you want to contribute to NetBSD, sure, that's fine. but copy-paste of someone else? no matter what the underlying process, it's still wrong.
- lxe 2y ago
  It’s a tool. Just like a car. Not some poetic philosophy construct. Don’t overthink it.
  - fargle 2y ago
    but it's a tool for stealing other's IP, not for noisily scooting from place to place it's not Luddite behavior for saying "no, we don't want to do that"
    - lxe 2y ago
      HN: Aaron Swartz is a hero and all knowledge should be free! Also HN: AI is evil because it's stealing copyrighted works!
      - fargle 2y ago
        me: Aaron Swartz is a dick and shouldn't have deprived us of himself and vice versa. he'd have been a free man 10 years ago. (not judging, just sad) also me: AI is evil because it tricks people into giving up their creativity, which isn't the boring part, it's the real part also also me: wtf? why bring that up?
- yareal 2y ago
  Hey now, the Luddites were not anti technology! They were highly skilled laborers who wanted to combine their expertise with the autoloom to increase overall throughput and split those gains with the factory owners. The factory owners said, "lol, nah" and fired them all to hire cheaper labor to run the autolooms so they could keep the increase in profitability to themselves. The Luddites were rightfully pissed and wrecked shit. The factory owners, had they been less greedy, could have kept the Luddites on board.
diego_sandoval 2y ago
> There will be a time in not-so-distant future when people look back at this kind of policy as silly. Only if copyright laws are abolished, or stop being enforced completely.
- zarzavat 2y ago
  Laws are eventually consistent with reality. There’s not many places that ban cars, except for tiny islands like Sark and that town in Switzerland.
  - RedlineTriad 2y ago
    Small note: Zermatt (the town you are probably talking about) is not the only car-free one in Switzerland. There are quite a few others[0], 10 towns in total, according to this website. [0] https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/countries-mainmenu-147/switzerland https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/countries-mainmenu-147/swi...

colechristensen 2y ago

For the present though, copyright and ownership when it comes to generated content is very much unsettled.

lmm 2y ago

> “Red flag laws” requiring motorcars to have a person with a flag walking in front With the amount of people getting killed by careless drivers, we should bring those back, at least in cities.

oofbey 2y ago

"Not-so-distant" indeed. IMHO this sounds just like banning people from using spell checkers when writing documentation. Legal paranoia aside, it's completely untenable in even the short term.

fargle 2y ago

i doubt it. it's easy to draw an analogy to early cars, or any kind of tech. revolution and say: "ahah, these folks are just like the Luddites, pbththth" this is fundamentally different. this is a machine, a mathematical equation, that converts enormous amounts of history and facts into a facsimile of creation, thought, expression. it does it convincingly in very small doses, but it doesn't do it all that well. unless your task is to regurgitate something relatively mechanical. a car was something new. a mechanical horse. it wasn't some distillation and averaging of every extant horse into some "perfect" mutant horse. it was genuinely new. it also wasn't a mirage or a hallucination. AI is not a creative force, rather reductive. it's at best a tool. so if you want to copyright something or you want to contribute to NetBSD, sure, that's fine. but copy-paste of someone else? no matter what the underlying process, it's still wrong.

lxe 2y ago
It’s a tool. Just like a car. Not some poetic philosophy construct. Don’t overthink it.
- fargle 2y ago
  but it's a tool for stealing other's IP, not for noisily scooting from place to place it's not Luddite behavior for saying "no, we don't want to do that"
  - lxe 2y ago
    HN: Aaron Swartz is a hero and all knowledge should be free! Also HN: AI is evil because it's stealing copyrighted works!
    - fargle 2y ago
      me: Aaron Swartz is a dick and shouldn't have deprived us of himself and vice versa. he'd have been a free man 10 years ago. (not judging, just sad) also me: AI is evil because it tricks people into giving up their creativity, which isn't the boring part, it's the real part also also me: wtf? why bring that up?
yareal 2y ago
Hey now, the Luddites were not anti technology! They were highly skilled laborers who wanted to combine their expertise with the autoloom to increase overall throughput and split those gains with the factory owners. The factory owners said, "lol, nah" and fired them all to hire cheaper labor to run the autolooms so they could keep the increase in profitability to themselves. The Luddites were rightfully pissed and wrecked shit. The factory owners, had they been less greedy, could have kept the Luddites on board.

diego_sandoval 2y ago

> There will be a time in not-so-distant future when people look back at this kind of policy as silly. Only if copyright laws are abolished, or stop being enforced completely.

zarzavat 2y ago
Laws are eventually consistent with reality. There’s not many places that ban cars, except for tiny islands like Sark and that town in Switzerland.
- RedlineTriad 2y ago
  Small note: Zermatt (the town you are probably talking about) is not the only car-free one in Switzerland. There are quite a few others[0], 10 towns in total, according to this website. [0] https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/countries-mainmenu-147/switzerland https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/countries-mainmenu-147/swi...