4 ms·

The market works when there's at least 4-5 competitors. That's enough to make monopolistic backroom deals impractical.

SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
That is what driving me nuts about these threads. These aren’t free markets. They’re government regulated into being something else entirely, then people stomp their feet and complain about capitalism.
- lesuorac 2y ago
  Uh, how did the government forbid there from being more than one ISP in a neighborhood? The regionalization of ISPs is entirely their own doing to avoid competition.
  - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
    > The regionalization of ISPs is entirely their own doing to avoid competition. And what mechanism did they use to do that?
    - lesuorac 2y ago
      Explicit contracts [1] and implicit collusion [2] [3]. There aren't that many large ISPs in the US. They know that if they compete they have to lower prices and if they don't compete they don't; so rather than compete and all of them accept lower prices (and worse margins) they don't. [1]: https://www.techdirt.com/2014/08/14/parallel-conduct-how-isps-make-consolidate-internet-service-market-even-worse/ https://www.techdirt.com/2014/08/14/parallel-conduct-how-isp... [2]: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/09/comcast-says-its-too-expensive-to-compete-against-other-cable-companies/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/09/comca... [3]: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/05/charter-wont-compete-against-cable-firms-because-it-might-buy-them-later/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/05/chart...
      - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
        Ok, so charters, regulation, bribery, local laws, and city policies… None of that sounds like free market to me.
- int_19h 2y ago
  "Free market" ends the moment government starts issuing corporate charters. We can debate what it should look like, but either way it is an artificial construct at that point.

That is what driving me nuts about these threads. These aren’t free markets. They’re government regulated into being something else entirely, then people stomp their feet and complain about capitalism.

lesuorac 2y ago
Uh, how did the government forbid there from being more than one ISP in a neighborhood? The regionalization of ISPs is entirely their own doing to avoid competition.
- SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
  > The regionalization of ISPs is entirely their own doing to avoid competition. And what mechanism did they use to do that?
  - lesuorac 2y ago
    Explicit contracts [1] and implicit collusion [2] [3]. There aren't that many large ISPs in the US. They know that if they compete they have to lower prices and if they don't compete they don't; so rather than compete and all of them accept lower prices (and worse margins) they don't. [1]: https://www.techdirt.com/2014/08/14/parallel-conduct-how-isps-make-consolidate-internet-service-market-even-worse/ https://www.techdirt.com/2014/08/14/parallel-conduct-how-isp... [2]: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/09/comcast-says-its-too-expensive-to-compete-against-other-cable-companies/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/09/comca... [3]: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/05/charter-wont-compete-against-cable-firms-because-it-might-buy-them-later/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/05/chart...
    - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
      Ok, so charters, regulation, bribery, local laws, and city policies… None of that sounds like free market to me.
int_19h 2y ago
"Free market" ends the moment government starts issuing corporate charters. We can debate what it should look like, but either way it is an artificial construct at that point.