5 ms·

Meanwhile I live 20 minutes from Google's heardquarters and I can't even get more than 25 Mbps uplink. Maybe these big internet companies should dig up all the

by dheera 2y ago

Meanwhile I live 20 minutes from Google's heardquarters and I can't even get more than 25 Mbps uplink. Maybe these big internet companies should dig up all the infrastructure in their home turf and replace it?

geodel 2y ago
But they are evil so why will they do it?
wmf 2y ago
They're not allowed to. Regulatory capture is running wild.
- dheera 2y ago
  They're fucking Google. If they dig the streets up and give me 10 Gbps fiber I will be more than happy to show up to city council and yell the shit away from any NIMBY old fart that says no.
  - lokar 2y ago
    It’s more that CA law makes it easy for comcast to tie it up in the courts forever, regardless of what your city council says.
  - TulliusCicero 2y ago
    And more NIMBYs will show up to scream about Google overrunning local government. It is extremely easy to make hugely powerful corporations the villain, for obvious reasons, and this doesn't stop being true in the case where they want something actually good.
    - consumer451 2y ago
      Sorry to have creeped into your bio, but what is your bandwidth in Munich?
    - manquer 2y ago
      And yet all these mega corps can spend 100s of millions on lobbying and get favorable law passed or regulation taken care whether labor, FTC or taxes or EPA . The local council is apparently the last bastion of democracy that can ward of influence of their largest tax payers and the wealthiest residents who are their employees
- rayiner 2y ago
  The notion that any ISP has more pull than Google, Facebook, and Apple in the Bay Area is facially absurd. Cupertino literally has a deal with Apple where it pays back 1/3 of Apple’s sales taxes: https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/11/04/california-wants-to-end-cupertinos-tax-deal-with-apple https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/11/04/california-wants-...
  - dilyevsky 2y ago
    That’s Cupertino. MV and Google have had much more adversarial relationship going back more than a decade. Look up their failed free wifi project as an example of this
- snakeyjake 2y ago
  People really need to cool it with the 2024 buzzphrase "regulatory capture". I don't know which podcast, and I'm almost certain it is some dumbass podcast somewhere, is promulgating the phrase which has been popping up with ludicrous regularity in 2024 to describe every situation where someone is pissed off about something, but the primary reason people don't have 10gbps internet isn't regulatory capture, it is that the deployment costs are too high unless either subsidized by the government (as is the case in many parts of Europe and this instance) or there is a combination of high density and eager market. "20 minutes from Google's Headquarters" is San Jose. San Jose is served by over 20 ISPs offering services from wireless to 10-gig fiber depending on location. The locations aren't determined by "regulatory capture" they are determined by a cost-benefit analysis. You, yes you, can start your own ISP anywhere in the country, right now, today. Anywhere. Remember 20 years ago when NYC gave Verizon exclusive franchise rights and then everyone got upset that they didn't fulfill their end of the bargain? That's gone. Everywhere, it's gone. Anyone, including you, yes you, can get a permit to microtrench fiber to any building in NYC unless there is excess capacity already in which case the party holding the excess capacity MUST sublicense it to you. Same for California. Same for any state. Rural Texas? Vexus Fiber is diggin shit up in Tyler TX. Middle of nowhere WA? Ziply is taking the risk. Doesn't matter if it is the densest or most historically protected city or loneliest prairie town you, yes you, can start an ISP right now, today. Reforms to the Pole Attachment Act have made this shit is easy now. Easy, but not cheap. Just gather $100 million so you can pay the $30k-50k per mile (due to material and labor NOT "rEgUlAtoRy CaPtuRe") to microtrench or pole-attach, get all of the permits to trench on public rights-of-way and negotiate the few (if any) non-public crossings you have to make, post the bonds needed to ensure that if you go bankrupt mid-construction there's cash to clean up YOUR mess, hire the network/civil engineers needed, pay for peering, staff an office and support center, and you, yes you, can start your own fiber ISP--today. Hell, many states will give you money to offset the costs. If I had $100 million I could wire all 2,300 homes in my Maryland suburb with fiber and no regulation could stop me. If I had $100 million I wouldn't waste it on that (we can already choose from multiple gigabit+ ISPs) I would retire.
  - simoncion 2y ago
    > "20 minutes from Google's Headquarters" is San Jose. It's also Burlingame, San Mateo, Fremont, Union City... Or, if the traffic is bad, it's Redwood City, Menlo Park, Stanford, Cupertino... Or, if you're taking public transit (or walking), it's pretty much just Mountain View.
umeshunni 2y ago
You live here - you know that that the NIMBYs would never allow that. It took 20 years to run a power line to electrify Caltrain.
- dilyevsky 2y ago
  The last NIMBY lawsuit on electic caltrain was settled back in like 2017. Hate to break it but that’s just your standard Cali corruption
- kristopolous 2y ago
  The actual NIMBYs here are those who can afford lobbyists and lawyers - might not be who you're imagining.
lokar 2y ago
This came up at lot at google when they launched fiber. CA regulation and environmental laws make it to easy for the monopolies to stop or slow you down. If you look at how they pick cities the main criteria is friendly regulations like “one touch make ready” requirements.
- manquer 2y ago
  Meh, they could have bought one the monopolies if they wanted to, like they did with Motorola when it is was in their interest to do so. It is a matter of will and persistence to run a this kind of business, Google does not have the DNA to run a serious enterprise business that needs decades of commitment to a product .
  - lokar 2y ago
    In 2012 google paid like 12B for Moto, comcast had a market cap of like 80B
    - manquer 2y ago
      Google did a $70B stock buyback last year. Every year they are doing similar numbers for the last 5 years. In 2012 they had $50B cash on hand. Today despite the buybacks every year they still have $100-150Billion cash on hand, while Comcast is only worth $150 Billion. They could absolutely afford it now and most likely 10 years back as well without even considering financing the deal. --- Google is just very bad at acquisitions, they simply are too risk averse and don't have the DNA. Compare with a peer like Microsoft in the same time frame: bought Linkedin($24B), Github ($8B) Activision($70B) invested in OpenAI ($10B), or Facebook : Instagram($1B), Occulus($3B), WhatsApp($19B). Mandiant is the only acquisition of note since Motorola even that is pretty small at $5B.
      - dheera 2y ago
        > Google is just very bad at acquisitions Youtube, Android, Where2 (== Google Maps), Writeley (== Google Docs), reCAPTHA, Fitbit ?
jeffbee 2y ago
Do you live in a donut of Sonic coverage? There definitely is Sonic 10gbps service in Mountain View.

by dheera 2y ago

geodel 2y ago

But they are evil so why will they do it?

wmf 2y ago

They're not allowed to. Regulatory capture is running wild.

dheera 2y ago
They're fucking Google. If they dig the streets up and give me 10 Gbps fiber I will be more than happy to show up to city council and yell the shit away from any NIMBY old fart that says no.
- lokar 2y ago
  It’s more that CA law makes it easy for comcast to tie it up in the courts forever, regardless of what your city council says.
- TulliusCicero 2y ago
  And more NIMBYs will show up to scream about Google overrunning local government. It is extremely easy to make hugely powerful corporations the villain, for obvious reasons, and this doesn't stop being true in the case where they want something actually good.
  - consumer451 2y ago
    Sorry to have creeped into your bio, but what is your bandwidth in Munich?
  - manquer 2y ago
    And yet all these mega corps can spend 100s of millions on lobbying and get favorable law passed or regulation taken care whether labor, FTC or taxes or EPA . The local council is apparently the last bastion of democracy that can ward of influence of their largest tax payers and the wealthiest residents who are their employees
rayiner 2y ago
The notion that any ISP has more pull than Google, Facebook, and Apple in the Bay Area is facially absurd. Cupertino literally has a deal with Apple where it pays back 1/3 of Apple’s sales taxes: https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/11/04/california-wants-to-end-cupertinos-tax-deal-with-apple https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/11/04/california-wants-...
- dilyevsky 2y ago
  That’s Cupertino. MV and Google have had much more adversarial relationship going back more than a decade. Look up their failed free wifi project as an example of this
snakeyjake 2y ago
People really need to cool it with the 2024 buzzphrase "regulatory capture". I don't know which podcast, and I'm almost certain it is some dumbass podcast somewhere, is promulgating the phrase which has been popping up with ludicrous regularity in 2024 to describe every situation where someone is pissed off about something, but the primary reason people don't have 10gbps internet isn't regulatory capture, it is that the deployment costs are too high unless either subsidized by the government (as is the case in many parts of Europe and this instance) or there is a combination of high density and eager market. "20 minutes from Google's Headquarters" is San Jose. San Jose is served by over 20 ISPs offering services from wireless to 10-gig fiber depending on location. The locations aren't determined by "regulatory capture" they are determined by a cost-benefit analysis. You, yes you, can start your own ISP anywhere in the country, right now, today. Anywhere. Remember 20 years ago when NYC gave Verizon exclusive franchise rights and then everyone got upset that they didn't fulfill their end of the bargain? That's gone. Everywhere, it's gone. Anyone, including you, yes you, can get a permit to microtrench fiber to any building in NYC unless there is excess capacity already in which case the party holding the excess capacity MUST sublicense it to you. Same for California. Same for any state. Rural Texas? Vexus Fiber is diggin shit up in Tyler TX. Middle of nowhere WA? Ziply is taking the risk. Doesn't matter if it is the densest or most historically protected city or loneliest prairie town you, yes you, can start an ISP right now, today. Reforms to the Pole Attachment Act have made this shit is easy now. Easy, but not cheap. Just gather $100 million so you can pay the $30k-50k per mile (due to material and labor NOT "rEgUlAtoRy CaPtuRe") to microtrench or pole-attach, get all of the permits to trench on public rights-of-way and negotiate the few (if any) non-public crossings you have to make, post the bonds needed to ensure that if you go bankrupt mid-construction there's cash to clean up YOUR mess, hire the network/civil engineers needed, pay for peering, staff an office and support center, and you, yes you, can start your own fiber ISP--today. Hell, many states will give you money to offset the costs. If I had $100 million I could wire all 2,300 homes in my Maryland suburb with fiber and no regulation could stop me. If I had $100 million I wouldn't waste it on that (we can already choose from multiple gigabit+ ISPs) I would retire.
- simoncion 2y ago
  > "20 minutes from Google's Headquarters" is San Jose. It's also Burlingame, San Mateo, Fremont, Union City... Or, if the traffic is bad, it's Redwood City, Menlo Park, Stanford, Cupertino... Or, if you're taking public transit (or walking), it's pretty much just Mountain View.

umeshunni 2y ago

You live here - you know that that the NIMBYs would never allow that. It took 20 years to run a power line to electrify Caltrain.

dilyevsky 2y ago
The last NIMBY lawsuit on electic caltrain was settled back in like 2017. Hate to break it but that’s just your standard Cali corruption
kristopolous 2y ago
The actual NIMBYs here are those who can afford lobbyists and lawyers - might not be who you're imagining.

lokar 2y ago

This came up at lot at google when they launched fiber. CA regulation and environmental laws make it to easy for the monopolies to stop or slow you down. If you look at how they pick cities the main criteria is friendly regulations like “one touch make ready” requirements.

manquer 2y ago
Meh, they could have bought one the monopolies if they wanted to, like they did with Motorola when it is was in their interest to do so. It is a matter of will and persistence to run a this kind of business, Google does not have the DNA to run a serious enterprise business that needs decades of commitment to a product .
- lokar 2y ago
  In 2012 google paid like 12B for Moto, comcast had a market cap of like 80B
  - manquer 2y ago
    Google did a $70B stock buyback last year. Every year they are doing similar numbers for the last 5 years. In 2012 they had $50B cash on hand. Today despite the buybacks every year they still have $100-150Billion cash on hand, while Comcast is only worth $150 Billion. They could absolutely afford it now and most likely 10 years back as well without even considering financing the deal. --- Google is just very bad at acquisitions, they simply are too risk averse and don't have the DNA. Compare with a peer like Microsoft in the same time frame: bought Linkedin($24B), Github ($8B) Activision($70B) invested in OpenAI ($10B), or Facebook : Instagram($1B), Occulus($3B), WhatsApp($19B). Mandiant is the only acquisition of note since Motorola even that is pretty small at $5B.
    - dheera 2y ago
      > Google is just very bad at acquisitions Youtube, Android, Where2 (== Google Maps), Writeley (== Google Docs), reCAPTHA, Fitbit ?

jeffbee 2y ago

Do you live in a donut of Sonic coverage? There definitely is Sonic 10gbps service in Mountain View.