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> I think RPi still has a place for hobby electronics projects where you want GPIO. But any sane design would offload the IO to a more capable MCU that has mor

by 05 2y ago

> I think RPi still has a place for hobby electronics projects where you want GPIO. But any sane design would offload the IO to a more capable MCU that has more than a single SPI channel, among other weird limitations.. Sure, hobbyists often do weird things, but the niche for RPi is pretty much 'basically a computer, but you could theoretically blink an LED' - the actual experience of using those peripherals is much worse that what you'd have in Arduino or Platformio. Try attaching an interrupt handler to a GPIO pin on Linux, now you need to write a kernel module :)

throwup238 2y ago
RPi's niche is really as an SBC supported by mainline Linux and a giant community. That's why it had supply shortages - that's a huge value add to the electronics industry and the money was too good to resist pivoting to commercial users over education and hobbyists. Grabbing an Altium/KiCad/etc footprint and slapping a compute module on a board while prototyping with a Pi is still the fastest way to go to market with a well supported Linux CPU. All the other manufacturers have really really shitty BSPs in comparison, even if you're just offloading everything realtime to an MCU. ESP32/ESPHome may have taken over the lower end with its easy config but there's still no real Pi competitor. A decade after the first RPi release, I still dread using any other platform when I have to design a board that requires more compute than an ESP32.
- kogepathic 2y ago
  > All the other manufacturers have really really shitty BSPs in comparison, even if you're just offloading everything realtime to an MCU. The irony here is that other SOC/SBC makers are focused more on throwing a barely stable design onto AliExpress for $20 than investing in good upstream support that would allow them to charge a premium. Raspberry Pi wasn't always able to charge a premium, that benefit came from years of investment into software and community. I have not yet seen another SOC vendor or board partner realize this in any significant way.
  - lazide 2y ago
    How would they get traction when they have Raspberry Pi right there next to them? Besides the price, anyway.
    - youainti 2y ago
      Spending money on linux devs who are available to help work through problems and keep systems up to date.
      - lazide 2y ago
        And how would that work compared to the army of free ones on the Raspberry Pi side?
  - alright2565 2y ago
    You're not looking in the right places. I've had great experiences with EmbeddedTS, and their kernel seems to be close to upstream.
    - kogepathic 2y ago
      > The TS-7250-V3 is an industrial grade SBC based on the NXP i.MX 6UL with a 696MHz Arm® Cortex®-A7 core and 512 MB or 1 GB DDR3 RAM This is their latest "High performance industrial grade embedded computer" that I can see on their website Of course you'll have good upstream support for something as old as the i.MX6UL, it's been out for 8 years (7 years at the time they released the TS-7250-V3). No wonder Raspberry Pi has upended the market, when a single core Cortex-A7 is the competition. Even an Allwinner chip that has a terrible BSP at release has good upstream support 7 years later.
- mfuzzey 2y ago
  > All the other manufacturers have really really shitty BSPs in comparison, I disagree. The NXP (i.MX line) and the TI (am62x) and the STM32 MP1/2 all have good mainline support. What you say is true of most of the Chineese chips and of mobile chips but if you go with mainstream suppliers targeting the industrial / automative markets these days mainline Linux support is good at the SoC level. At the SoM level some are better than others but it's not that hard to pull the approriate DTS into your mainline kernel build even if it isn't already upstream. RPi is probably better for hobbyists but that's not due to the mainline status but a community more in tune with hobbyists than the more industrial products. I've built professional embedded Linux systems based in i.MX5/6/8 and STM32MP1 with mainline based BSP rather than vendor stuff but have only ever used the RPi for one off tools.
lmm 2y ago
> the niche for RPi is pretty much 'basically a computer, but you could theoretically blink an LED' I honestly think that's where most of the demand is. It's an aspirational product, like a jacket you could theoretically go up a mountain in or a watch that works underwater or whatever.
- lazide 2y ago
  90% of the demand? Probably. That said, if you’re rolling a DIY remotely manageable industrial automation project? It’s the obvious choice. Hard to beat being able to apt-get openssh, python, etc. etc. and the ecosystem of pluggable hats for just this purpose.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
rerdavies 2y ago
How to access GPIO interrupts: https://roboticsbackend.com/raspberry-pi-gpio-interrupts-tutorial/ https://roboticsbackend.com/raspberry-pi-gpio-interrupts-tut...
- bdemirkir 2y ago
  That's not an interrupt but an event sent from kernel's gpio subsystem. It may skip some events and there's not much guarantee on the delay between the interrupt itself and event userspace gets.

by 05 2y ago

throwup238 2y ago

RPi's niche is really as an SBC supported by mainline Linux and a giant community. That's why it had supply shortages - that's a huge value add to the electronics industry and the money was too good to resist pivoting to commercial users over education and hobbyists. Grabbing an Altium/KiCad/etc footprint and slapping a compute module on a board while prototyping with a Pi is still the fastest way to go to market with a well supported Linux CPU. All the other manufacturers have really really shitty BSPs in comparison, even if you're just offloading everything realtime to an MCU. ESP32/ESPHome may have taken over the lower end with its easy config but there's still no real Pi competitor. A decade after the first RPi release, I still dread using any other platform when I have to design a board that requires more compute than an ESP32.

kogepathic 2y ago
> All the other manufacturers have really really shitty BSPs in comparison, even if you're just offloading everything realtime to an MCU. The irony here is that other SOC/SBC makers are focused more on throwing a barely stable design onto AliExpress for $20 than investing in good upstream support that would allow them to charge a premium. Raspberry Pi wasn't always able to charge a premium, that benefit came from years of investment into software and community. I have not yet seen another SOC vendor or board partner realize this in any significant way.
- lazide 2y ago
  How would they get traction when they have Raspberry Pi right there next to them? Besides the price, anyway.
  - youainti 2y ago
    Spending money on linux devs who are available to help work through problems and keep systems up to date.
    - lazide 2y ago
      And how would that work compared to the army of free ones on the Raspberry Pi side?
- alright2565 2y ago
  You're not looking in the right places. I've had great experiences with EmbeddedTS, and their kernel seems to be close to upstream.
  - kogepathic 2y ago
    > The TS-7250-V3 is an industrial grade SBC based on the NXP i.MX 6UL with a 696MHz Arm® Cortex®-A7 core and 512 MB or 1 GB DDR3 RAM This is their latest "High performance industrial grade embedded computer" that I can see on their website Of course you'll have good upstream support for something as old as the i.MX6UL, it's been out for 8 years (7 years at the time they released the TS-7250-V3). No wonder Raspberry Pi has upended the market, when a single core Cortex-A7 is the competition. Even an Allwinner chip that has a terrible BSP at release has good upstream support 7 years later.
mfuzzey 2y ago
> All the other manufacturers have really really shitty BSPs in comparison, I disagree. The NXP (i.MX line) and the TI (am62x) and the STM32 MP1/2 all have good mainline support. What you say is true of most of the Chineese chips and of mobile chips but if you go with mainstream suppliers targeting the industrial / automative markets these days mainline Linux support is good at the SoC level. At the SoM level some are better than others but it's not that hard to pull the approriate DTS into your mainline kernel build even if it isn't already upstream. RPi is probably better for hobbyists but that's not due to the mainline status but a community more in tune with hobbyists than the more industrial products. I've built professional embedded Linux systems based in i.MX5/6/8 and STM32MP1 with mainline based BSP rather than vendor stuff but have only ever used the RPi for one off tools.

lmm 2y ago

> the niche for RPi is pretty much 'basically a computer, but you could theoretically blink an LED' I honestly think that's where most of the demand is. It's an aspirational product, like a jacket you could theoretically go up a mountain in or a watch that works underwater or whatever.

lazide 2y ago
90% of the demand? Probably. That said, if you’re rolling a DIY remotely manageable industrial automation project? It’s the obvious choice. Hard to beat being able to apt-get openssh, python, etc. etc. and the ecosystem of pluggable hats for just this purpose.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

rerdavies 2y ago

How to access GPIO interrupts: https://roboticsbackend.com/raspberry-pi-gpio-interrupts-tutorial/ https://roboticsbackend.com/raspberry-pi-gpio-interrupts-tut...

bdemirkir 2y ago
That's not an interrupt but an event sent from kernel's gpio subsystem. It may skip some events and there's not much guarantee on the delay between the interrupt itself and event userspace gets.