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Given the amount of people in this thread (and similar threads over time) saying "just thicken up your skin" (i.e. it is the maintainers fault for being sensiti

Given the amount of people in this thread (and similar threads over time) saying "just thicken up your skin" (i.e. it is the maintainers fault for being sensitive, not the trolls fault for being a dick), I doubt it.

zzo38computer 2y ago
Anyone can communicate or do other stuff that will affect anyone, and they may make decisions based on that. Therefore, it is both of their fault. Whoever wrote the email message should not have written like that; but, it is the receiver to decide what (if anything) to do about it. The maintainer can choose to decomission the project; whether or not that is the best thing to do is a different question (although, considering what the first paragraph of the README.md file says, there are some reasons that they might not want to work on this project, especially if all it results is email messages like that one).
whimsicalism 2y ago
I don't think anyone is suggesting it is not the trolls fault, but the internet is fundamentally an unpolicable place so I'm unsure what the value of assigning 'fault' even is. There are 7 billion people and at minimum, tens of millions of them are massive assholes and idiots.
- ziddoap 2y ago
  >I don't think anyone is suggesting it is not the trolls fault, I mean, there is though? "Just get over it", "need thicker skin", "the cost of doing business in open source", etc. You did it in your own comment even. Making excuses for shitty behavior, as if it's some natural law like gravity. What do those sentences mean, if not suggesting that the maintainer is the one who made the wrong decision (by taking offense to the email)?
  - zzo38computer 2y ago
    It is not an excuse. The maintainer can decide what to do about it. Whether or not that is the wrong decision is a different issue. (Anyways, there are many other reasons why it might not be maintained, than only due to receiving such a email message; e.g. because you are injured or because you have other work to do (which is what is mentioned in the README.md file anyways), or whatever other reason that maybe other people don't necessarily know.) Nevertheless, some people who will maintain the project (not necessarily this one, and not necessarily) should do so even if people send such bad messages. That does not mean that everyone will; what they decide to do about messages they receive is their own choice. This is why FOSS is important; you can fork the project and make your own modifications, if you disagree with the maintainer.
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    > What do those sentences mean, if not suggesting that the maintainer is the one who made the wrong decision (by taking offense to the email)? They mean that I don't see really any value in your framework of 'fault' vs not. We are still left with the question of 'what do you do'. For a project of this magnitude, I don't think the maintainer made the wrong decision. But just because someone else is at fault does not mean that every decision by the other party in response is a good one.
    - ziddoap 2y ago
      You're really hanging on to the word 'fault', but 'fault' is not the main point I was trying to convey with my comment. My point was: I don't think this post will serve as a reminder to be nice to OSS maintainers (as the original comment I replied to was saying), because the majority of comments I see are some variation of "toughen up" directed at the maintainers.
  - friend_and_foe 2y ago
    Nobody is making excuses for shitty behavior, they're saying that if you interact with enough people you'll encounter shitty behavior because there are shitty people in the world. When you go outside just be ready to carry on with your life when you encounter one of these. Statistically speaking, the likelihood that there's an asshole somewhere that you'll run into in the course of your lifetime is near 100%, so it is some natural law like gravity. Do you have a proposal for a solution to this problem, or are you just calling people victim blamers for acknowledging that these people exist?
    - ziddoap 2y ago
      >or are you just calling people victim blamers for acknowledging that these people exist If someones only contribution to the conversation is blaming the victim of harassment for not have thick enough skin, they shouldn't be surprised to be called a victim blamer.
      - friend_and_foe 2y ago
        I still have yet to see a contribution to the conversation from you.
toomuchtodo 2y ago
I maintain a few open source projects, and while it’s not for everyone, if you don’t put your best foot forward interacting to get support or contribute, I’ll block you and move on. Life is too short to suffer fools or shitty people.

zzo38computer 2y ago

Anyone can communicate or do other stuff that will affect anyone, and they may make decisions based on that. Therefore, it is both of their fault. Whoever wrote the email message should not have written like that; but, it is the receiver to decide what (if anything) to do about it. The maintainer can choose to decomission the project; whether or not that is the best thing to do is a different question (although, considering what the first paragraph of the README.md file says, there are some reasons that they might not want to work on this project, especially if all it results is email messages like that one).

whimsicalism 2y ago

I don't think anyone is suggesting it is not the trolls fault, but the internet is fundamentally an unpolicable place so I'm unsure what the value of assigning 'fault' even is. There are 7 billion people and at minimum, tens of millions of them are massive assholes and idiots.

ziddoap 2y ago
>I don't think anyone is suggesting it is not the trolls fault, I mean, there is though? "Just get over it", "need thicker skin", "the cost of doing business in open source", etc. You did it in your own comment even. Making excuses for shitty behavior, as if it's some natural law like gravity. What do those sentences mean, if not suggesting that the maintainer is the one who made the wrong decision (by taking offense to the email)?
- zzo38computer 2y ago
  It is not an excuse. The maintainer can decide what to do about it. Whether or not that is the wrong decision is a different issue. (Anyways, there are many other reasons why it might not be maintained, than only due to receiving such a email message; e.g. because you are injured or because you have other work to do (which is what is mentioned in the README.md file anyways), or whatever other reason that maybe other people don't necessarily know.) Nevertheless, some people who will maintain the project (not necessarily this one, and not necessarily) should do so even if people send such bad messages. That does not mean that everyone will; what they decide to do about messages they receive is their own choice. This is why FOSS is important; you can fork the project and make your own modifications, if you disagree with the maintainer.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  > What do those sentences mean, if not suggesting that the maintainer is the one who made the wrong decision (by taking offense to the email)? They mean that I don't see really any value in your framework of 'fault' vs not. We are still left with the question of 'what do you do'. For a project of this magnitude, I don't think the maintainer made the wrong decision. But just because someone else is at fault does not mean that every decision by the other party in response is a good one.
  - ziddoap 2y ago
    You're really hanging on to the word 'fault', but 'fault' is not the main point I was trying to convey with my comment. My point was: I don't think this post will serve as a reminder to be nice to OSS maintainers (as the original comment I replied to was saying), because the majority of comments I see are some variation of "toughen up" directed at the maintainers.
- friend_and_foe 2y ago
  Nobody is making excuses for shitty behavior, they're saying that if you interact with enough people you'll encounter shitty behavior because there are shitty people in the world. When you go outside just be ready to carry on with your life when you encounter one of these. Statistically speaking, the likelihood that there's an asshole somewhere that you'll run into in the course of your lifetime is near 100%, so it is some natural law like gravity. Do you have a proposal for a solution to this problem, or are you just calling people victim blamers for acknowledging that these people exist?
  - ziddoap 2y ago
    >or are you just calling people victim blamers for acknowledging that these people exist If someones only contribution to the conversation is blaming the victim of harassment for not have thick enough skin, they shouldn't be surprised to be called a victim blamer.
    - friend_and_foe 2y ago
      I still have yet to see a contribution to the conversation from you.

toomuchtodo 2y ago

I maintain a few open source projects, and while it’s not for everyone, if you don’t put your best foot forward interacting to get support or contribute, I’ll block you and move on. Life is too short to suffer fools or shitty people.