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"Are the only concrete examples a seven year old walking to school by themselves and wearing snow boots sometimes?" In Germany I walked to Kindergarden around

"Are the only concrete examples a seven year old walking to school by themselves and wearing snow boots sometimes?" In Germany I walked to Kindergarden around one mile in any weather. Snow boots when necessary. From 5th grade on I walked a mile to the train, and then another half mile from train to school. In any weather and it was no big deal.

Rinzler89 2y ago
I don't get this focus of HN with pointing out walking to places for kids, as if it's feature only in rich developed countries like Switzerland or Germany. Even in the 90's Eastern Europe we used to walk to school by ourselves several km, and pretty sure it also applies in other continents tool.
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  Its a contrast with American style development where much of the development is actively hostile to walking despite being rich and developed. Kids in Mexico and Peru walk places too.
  - Aerroon 2y ago
    I think the culture (not) allowing them to walk has a larger impact on this. I bet that if it was culturally ok then people (kids) would find a way to make it work. Kids take shortcuts through grass and wooded areas. They are so thoroughly walked through by now that they are just considered normal paths. And if that shortcut leads to a road crossing, that obviously didn't have a zebra, then they just cross there anyway. I saw that some years ago they built a larger road on the way and put up barriers and what not. Then I saw some kids walk up to it, jump over the barrier, walk across the road and jump over the other side. Obviously this isn't ideal, but if it's okay to let people (kids) walk, then I think they would figure out paths to make it work. As long as the distances aren't too far. I think 1.5-2 miles would be near the upper limit of reasonableness.
    - dghlsakjg 2y ago
      For a lot of kids in the US suburbs, a 2 mile walk doesn’t get them anywhere interesting. Maybe a strip mall or grocery store where they aren’t really welcome. Add to that, most of the walk will be on roads that have no provision for pedestrians with drivers who have no consideration for pedestrians. People who haven’t lived in a US suburb have a hard time appreciating how much it is a landscape that is designed entirely around either being in your private home, or driving somewhere else.
- microtherion 2y ago
  It used to be a biographical staple of e.g. Kenyan long distance runners that they ran 10+ miles to and from school every day.
- bitshiftfaced 2y ago
  I lived 15+ minutes away from school. I woke up, dressed myself, and got on the school bus, like many other American children. It may be the case that children are more independent in some countries. I just don't think the author can make that point based only on walking to school, which depends more on distance to the school than anything else.
em500 2y ago
I think your experience is far outside the norm for age 6 or younger (Kindergarten age). I don't know about specifics in Germany, but in the Netherlands, the fraction of children going to school unaccompanied between age 4-12 was as follows: 4(2%), 5(3%), 6(8%), 7(25%), 8(36%), 9(59%), 10(73%), 11(85%), 12(91%), according to research from 20 years ago. Anecdotally that age have been creeping upwards in recent decades.
- rqtwteye 2y ago
  My experience is almost 50 years ago. Back then almost nobody had two cars so once dad was at work, there was no way to drive the kids to school.
- Aerroon 2y ago
  The default in Estonia is that when a kid starts school they go to school and come home on their own. School usually starts at 7 years old, but some kids start at 6 or 8. These days they might be taken to school by their parents, but they pretty much all get home on their own or go into extra curricular activities on their own. School ends way earlier than any parents could conceivably pick them up. But kids roaming around on their own isn't that unusual. I remember being a bit sad when I turned 8 years old because riding the bus was no longer free at that age. (Or maybe it was 7?)

Rinzler89 2y ago

I don't get this focus of HN with pointing out walking to places for kids, as if it's feature only in rich developed countries like Switzerland or Germany. Even in the 90's Eastern Europe we used to walk to school by ourselves several km, and pretty sure it also applies in other continents tool.

dghlsakjg 2y ago
Its a contrast with American style development where much of the development is actively hostile to walking despite being rich and developed. Kids in Mexico and Peru walk places too.
- Aerroon 2y ago
  I think the culture (not) allowing them to walk has a larger impact on this. I bet that if it was culturally ok then people (kids) would find a way to make it work. Kids take shortcuts through grass and wooded areas. They are so thoroughly walked through by now that they are just considered normal paths. And if that shortcut leads to a road crossing, that obviously didn't have a zebra, then they just cross there anyway. I saw that some years ago they built a larger road on the way and put up barriers and what not. Then I saw some kids walk up to it, jump over the barrier, walk across the road and jump over the other side. Obviously this isn't ideal, but if it's okay to let people (kids) walk, then I think they would figure out paths to make it work. As long as the distances aren't too far. I think 1.5-2 miles would be near the upper limit of reasonableness.
  - dghlsakjg 2y ago
    For a lot of kids in the US suburbs, a 2 mile walk doesn’t get them anywhere interesting. Maybe a strip mall or grocery store where they aren’t really welcome. Add to that, most of the walk will be on roads that have no provision for pedestrians with drivers who have no consideration for pedestrians. People who haven’t lived in a US suburb have a hard time appreciating how much it is a landscape that is designed entirely around either being in your private home, or driving somewhere else.
microtherion 2y ago
It used to be a biographical staple of e.g. Kenyan long distance runners that they ran 10+ miles to and from school every day.
bitshiftfaced 2y ago
I lived 15+ minutes away from school. I woke up, dressed myself, and got on the school bus, like many other American children. It may be the case that children are more independent in some countries. I just don't think the author can make that point based only on walking to school, which depends more on distance to the school than anything else.

em500 2y ago

I think your experience is far outside the norm for age 6 or younger (Kindergarten age). I don't know about specifics in Germany, but in the Netherlands, the fraction of children going to school unaccompanied between age 4-12 was as follows: 4(2%), 5(3%), 6(8%), 7(25%), 8(36%), 9(59%), 10(73%), 11(85%), 12(91%), according to research from 20 years ago. Anecdotally that age have been creeping upwards in recent decades.

rqtwteye 2y ago
My experience is almost 50 years ago. Back then almost nobody had two cars so once dad was at work, there was no way to drive the kids to school.
Aerroon 2y ago
The default in Estonia is that when a kid starts school they go to school and come home on their own. School usually starts at 7 years old, but some kids start at 6 or 8. These days they might be taken to school by their parents, but they pretty much all get home on their own or go into extra curricular activities on their own. School ends way earlier than any parents could conceivably pick them up. But kids roaming around on their own isn't that unusual. I remember being a bit sad when I turned 8 years old because riding the bus was no longer free at that age. (Or maybe it was 7?)