4 ms·

Reminds me of this 99PI article/episode about how the built environment in urban Japan enables a lot of independence for little kids. You can't do that in a lot

Reminds me of this 99PI article/episode about how the built environment in urban Japan enables a lot of independence for little kids. You can't do that in a lot of the US because speeding cars make it unsafe to walk, and there's nowhere worthwhile within walking distance anyway. So of course US parents keep their kids on a short leash; the environment around them is hostile to anyone outside a car. https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/first-errand/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/first-errand/

chrisco255 2y ago
Walking in Switzerland isn't without risk of collision from street cars, buses, cyclists and cars, especially for an unsavvy 5 year old. But the short leash rule extends to areas of parenting beyond just long walks to school. America is obsessed with infantilization all the way to the legal drinking age being fixed at 21 and strictly enforced.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- cafard 2y ago
  You can thank the Reagan Administration for that one. The Department of Transportation had ideological scruples about mandating airbags, and came up with numbers to indicate that raising the drinking age would decrease automotive fatalities by a comparable rate. Before that, the drinking age was up to the states.
  - chrisco255 2y ago
    It still is up to the states but I suppose they would lose 10% of their highway funding if they went against the law: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._history_of_alcohol_minimum_purchase_age_by_state https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._history_of_alcohol_mini... To be honest I think Federal laws like this that carve out "obey or be punished financially" dictates should be outlawed and unconstitutional. Or if the Federal government wants to make funding conditional then the taxes for that initiative should not be enforceable for the state that chooses to forego that service.
- rootsandstones 2y ago
  Nothing in life is without risk but children need to learn about the risk and what to do to minimize it.
cscurmudgeon 2y ago
Cars are not the main issue (but a huge issue due to urban sprawl caused by NIBMYism): This is typical in large cities: https://old.reddit.com/r/SanJose/comments/1c7er1l/homeless_person_camping_out_in_front_of_a_house/ https://old.reddit.com/r/SanJose/comments/1c7er1l/homeless_p... Today: "San Jose girl attacked while walking home from school, police say | KRON4" https://old.reddit.com/r/SanJose/comments/1cs7du6/san_jose_girl_attacked_while_walking_home_from/ https://old.reddit.com/r/SanJose/comments/1cs7du6/san_jose_g... > Police said Martinez is known to hang out in “The Jungle,” a sprawling homeless encampment that stretches along a creek adjacent to Senter Road and Keyes Street. This is one of the richest cities in the US. A city which has squandered 100s of millions of dollars of homeless aid: https://www.mercurynews.com/2024/04/13/audit-san-jose-failed-to-adequately-track-300-million-in-homelessness-spending/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2024/04/13/audit-san-jose-failed... This is a real issue: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/south-bay/san-jose-council-homeless-camps-schools/3437464/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/south-bay/san-jose-cou... > Student activists said they do not want to criminalize homelessness, but insist walking to school in fear has to stop.
sandworm101 2y ago
It isn't all about the traffic. Japan also enjoys famously low crime rates by almost every metric. The most dangerous parts of Japan are safer than the best low-crime neighborhoods in the US. This bleads into all aspects of the culture. People who feel safer themselves then don't panic as much about their kids walking out of sight.
- bombcar 2y ago
  There's also societal expectations - in Japan if a five year old unaccompanied minor asks an adult a question they'd get an answer; in the USA that same thing likely will result in a call to the cops and CPS will get involved.
  - sandworm101 2y ago
    >> if a five year old unaccompanied minor asks an adult a question they'd get an answer Well, cops would be involved. While walking my dog in the woods (pacific northwest, about 500m from the nearest road) I came across a young kid. She spoke no English and was clearly separated a tour group. Sun was setting. We had maybe a half hour before flashlights would be needed but my dog and I knew every tree. I wasn't sure which path she came from. She wanted help, but if I lead her back to the road I would be the one explaining my actions to the police. So I left her in the woods. (No. After some shouting into the woods, a member of the tour group came running.) My point: In the west, our fear of being accused of something nefarious can actually cause us to hesitate even when child is literally lost in the woods.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >Japan also enjoys famously low crime rates by almost every metric. Japan is also a highly conformist and homogenous society with very little ilegal immigration.
  - a_c_s 2y ago
    What does some people not filling out paperwork before moving to another country have to do with how the society treats 5-year-olds?
Rinzler89 2y ago
>You can't do that in a lot of the US because speeding cars make it unsafe to walk Not just speeding cars but specifically those shitty monster-trucks with crap visibility that can just run over everyone who isn't Shaq. Why in the name of all that is holy does every insecure suburban dickhead need to own a Ford F-450 Super Duty to play cowboy in the city? And now they're worshiping the Cybertruck which has the pedestrian crash safety of a giant prison shank making it illegal in Europe. How do you expect to have safe roads for kids considering a nation's worshiping of oversized impractical cars?
- orangecat 2y ago
  Why in the name of all that is holy does every insecure suburban dickhead need to own a Ford F-450 Super Duty to play cowboy in the city? Largely fuel economy regulations that perversely incentivize making larger cars with worse efficiency (e.g. https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-are-fuel-economy-regulations-to-blame https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-ar...), which in turn increases demand for them, because if everyone else is driving a Canyonero you'd better get one too so you have some hope of surviving an accident.

chrisco255 2y ago

Walking in Switzerland isn't without risk of collision from street cars, buses, cyclists and cars, especially for an unsavvy 5 year old. But the short leash rule extends to areas of parenting beyond just long walks to school. America is obsessed with infantilization all the way to the legal drinking age being fixed at 21 and strictly enforced.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cafard 2y ago
You can thank the Reagan Administration for that one. The Department of Transportation had ideological scruples about mandating airbags, and came up with numbers to indicate that raising the drinking age would decrease automotive fatalities by a comparable rate. Before that, the drinking age was up to the states.
- chrisco255 2y ago
  It still is up to the states but I suppose they would lose 10% of their highway funding if they went against the law: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._history_of_alcohol_minimum_purchase_age_by_state https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._history_of_alcohol_mini... To be honest I think Federal laws like this that carve out "obey or be punished financially" dictates should be outlawed and unconstitutional. Or if the Federal government wants to make funding conditional then the taxes for that initiative should not be enforceable for the state that chooses to forego that service.
rootsandstones 2y ago
Nothing in life is without risk but children need to learn about the risk and what to do to minimize it.

cscurmudgeon 2y ago

Cars are not the main issue (but a huge issue due to urban sprawl caused by NIBMYism): This is typical in large cities: https://old.reddit.com/r/SanJose/comments/1c7er1l/homeless_person_camping_out_in_front_of_a_house/ https://old.reddit.com/r/SanJose/comments/1c7er1l/homeless_p... Today: "San Jose girl attacked while walking home from school, police say | KRON4" https://old.reddit.com/r/SanJose/comments/1cs7du6/san_jose_girl_attacked_while_walking_home_from/ https://old.reddit.com/r/SanJose/comments/1cs7du6/san_jose_g... > Police said Martinez is known to hang out in “The Jungle,” a sprawling homeless encampment that stretches along a creek adjacent to Senter Road and Keyes Street. This is one of the richest cities in the US. A city which has squandered 100s of millions of dollars of homeless aid: https://www.mercurynews.com/2024/04/13/audit-san-jose-failed-to-adequately-track-300-million-in-homelessness-spending/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2024/04/13/audit-san-jose-failed... This is a real issue: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/south-bay/san-jose-council-homeless-camps-schools/3437464/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/south-bay/san-jose-cou... > Student activists said they do not want to criminalize homelessness, but insist walking to school in fear has to stop.

sandworm101 2y ago

It isn't all about the traffic. Japan also enjoys famously low crime rates by almost every metric. The most dangerous parts of Japan are safer than the best low-crime neighborhoods in the US. This bleads into all aspects of the culture. People who feel safer themselves then don't panic as much about their kids walking out of sight.

bombcar 2y ago
There's also societal expectations - in Japan if a five year old unaccompanied minor asks an adult a question they'd get an answer; in the USA that same thing likely will result in a call to the cops and CPS will get involved.
- sandworm101 2y ago
  >> if a five year old unaccompanied minor asks an adult a question they'd get an answer Well, cops would be involved. While walking my dog in the woods (pacific northwest, about 500m from the nearest road) I came across a young kid. She spoke no English and was clearly separated a tour group. Sun was setting. We had maybe a half hour before flashlights would be needed but my dog and I knew every tree. I wasn't sure which path she came from. She wanted help, but if I lead her back to the road I would be the one explaining my actions to the police. So I left her in the woods. (No. After some shouting into the woods, a member of the tour group came running.) My point: In the west, our fear of being accused of something nefarious can actually cause us to hesitate even when child is literally lost in the woods.
Rinzler89 2y ago
>Japan also enjoys famously low crime rates by almost every metric. Japan is also a highly conformist and homogenous society with very little ilegal immigration.
- a_c_s 2y ago
  What does some people not filling out paperwork before moving to another country have to do with how the society treats 5-year-olds?

Rinzler89 2y ago

>You can't do that in a lot of the US because speeding cars make it unsafe to walk Not just speeding cars but specifically those shitty monster-trucks with crap visibility that can just run over everyone who isn't Shaq. Why in the name of all that is holy does every insecure suburban dickhead need to own a Ford F-450 Super Duty to play cowboy in the city? And now they're worshiping the Cybertruck which has the pedestrian crash safety of a giant prison shank making it illegal in Europe. How do you expect to have safe roads for kids considering a nation's worshiping of oversized impractical cars?

orangecat 2y ago
Why in the name of all that is holy does every insecure suburban dickhead need to own a Ford F-450 Super Duty to play cowboy in the city? Largely fuel economy regulations that perversely incentivize making larger cars with worse efficiency (e.g. https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-are-fuel-economy-regulations-to-blame https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-ar...), which in turn increases demand for them, because if everyone else is driving a Canyonero you'd better get one too so you have some hope of surviving an accident.