4 ms·

Usually if i don't understand the relevancy of a trending post on HN or never heard an abbreviation/ product name the answer is always that its something to do

Usually if i don't understand the relevancy of a trending post on HN or never heard an abbreviation/ product name the answer is always that its something to do with ai. If anyone else wonders why blue noise is needed https://xchhuang.github.io/bndm/ https://xchhuang.github.io/bndm/

jsheard 2y ago
Blue noise is broadly useful in imaging, you can use it for high quality dithering, or for perceptually smoother sampling in raytracers for example. Here you can see the same rendering using white noise (true randomness) or blue noise, with the same number of samples: https://www.shadertoy.com/view/3sfBWs https://www.shadertoy.com/view/3sfBWs / https://i.imgur.com/uDybnPm.png https://i.imgur.com/uDybnPm.png
- Art9681 2y ago
  Thank you. Now I understand the use case.
- majoe 2y ago
  Not only in imaging. More generally, blue noise is often used with all kind of Monte Carlo simulations, since the more evenly spaced sampling can speed up convergence. Raytracing can be seen as one such MC simulation
  - buildartefact 2y ago
    In path tracing blue noise does not increase convergence, but does reduce the perceptual error.
    - majoe 2y ago
      The upper bound of the approximation error of random Monte Carlo methods decreases with O(1/sqrt(N)), whereas the error for quasirandom Monte Carlo methods (omitting some details) decreases with O(1/N) (where N is the number of samples) [0]. I don't think path tracing is an exception here. I would even argue the opposite: For the same variance I would expect the error to be more perceptible for (blue noise) quasirandom MC, because it can lead to regular patterns in the noise. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-Monte_Carlo_method https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-Monte_Carlo_method
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
littlestymaar 2y ago
Blue noise is not specific to AI at all, it's often needed for wherever you need your random to look random to the human eye: true random/white noise, doesn't look random to us, because it has elements that look too clumped up to each other, blue noise has nicely separated elements in places that look random.
mariusor 2y ago
If you're willing to watch a developer go through some concrete reasons why blue noise is useful, Casey Muratori has some episodes dedicated to exploring ways of calculating light propagation in a 3D environment in his HandMade Hero series. (The first mention I could find for "blue noise" is in ep. 428: https://guide.handmadehero.org/code/ https://guide.handmadehero.org/code/, so I would start from there)

jsheard 2y ago

Blue noise is broadly useful in imaging, you can use it for high quality dithering, or for perceptually smoother sampling in raytracers for example. Here you can see the same rendering using white noise (true randomness) or blue noise, with the same number of samples: https://www.shadertoy.com/view/3sfBWs https://www.shadertoy.com/view/3sfBWs / https://i.imgur.com/uDybnPm.png https://i.imgur.com/uDybnPm.png

Art9681 2y ago
Thank you. Now I understand the use case.
majoe 2y ago
Not only in imaging. More generally, blue noise is often used with all kind of Monte Carlo simulations, since the more evenly spaced sampling can speed up convergence. Raytracing can be seen as one such MC simulation
- buildartefact 2y ago
  In path tracing blue noise does not increase convergence, but does reduce the perceptual error.
  - majoe 2y ago
    The upper bound of the approximation error of random Monte Carlo methods decreases with O(1/sqrt(N)), whereas the error for quasirandom Monte Carlo methods (omitting some details) decreases with O(1/N) (where N is the number of samples) [0]. I don't think path tracing is an exception here. I would even argue the opposite: For the same variance I would expect the error to be more perceptible for (blue noise) quasirandom MC, because it can lead to regular patterns in the noise. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-Monte_Carlo_method https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-Monte_Carlo_method
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

littlestymaar 2y ago

Blue noise is not specific to AI at all, it's often needed for wherever you need your random to look random to the human eye: true random/white noise, doesn't look random to us, because it has elements that look too clumped up to each other, blue noise has nicely separated elements in places that look random.

mariusor 2y ago

If you're willing to watch a developer go through some concrete reasons why blue noise is useful, Casey Muratori has some episodes dedicated to exploring ways of calculating light propagation in a 3D environment in his HandMade Hero series. (The first mention I could find for "blue noise" is in ep. 428: https://guide.handmadehero.org/code/ https://guide.handmadehero.org/code/, so I would start from there)