4 ms·

> "Whims said her content is explicit" Shouldn't that be called Erotica rather than Romance, then?

by glandium 2y ago

thaumasiotes 2y ago
No, explicit content is what "romance" means.
- andrewflnr 2y ago
  It's absolutely not. Romance is a big term containing, among other things, subcategories that are resolutions resolutely against any explicit content. FWIW "erotica" is probably also wrong for similar but oppositely directed reasons.
  - thaumasiotes 2y ago
    Where are you getting this? "Romance novel" means a pornographic novel. The term is euphemistic, and universally understood. Compare this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/comments/r8cqrh/are_there_any_romance_books_without_sex/ https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/comments/r8cqrh/are_th... Where, as you can see, the title is "are there any romance books without sex?", the poster acknowledges that this is a strange thing to ask, and the responses identify special terms for romance novels that are missing the defining feature of the genre.
    - andrewflnr 2y ago
      Because I'm an aspiring writer who learns a lot of things about publishing by the wayside. Romance is a major genre and frequently discussed, including its subdivisions like "clean", "open/closed door", etc. And the top replies in that thread clearly agree with me, so I don't know why you think it's helping your case. Edit: and actually, you made an even stronger claim that romance and "explicit content" are definitionally equal, which really suggests you've never heard the term "erotica" which is well-established to be different from "romance".
      - thaumasiotes 2y ago
        > And the top replies in that thread clearly agree with me, so I don't know why you think it's helping your case. Because they don't agree with you. "Clean romance" is to "romance" as "fish vegetarian" is to "vegetarian". It's a contrast, not a subtype. The idea that "clean romance" is "romance without sex scenes" immediately tells you that "romance" includes sex scenes. That's what "the exception that proves the rule" means. I'm familiar with the term "erotica". It is not restricted to books, but erotica in book form goes under the name "romance novels".
        andrewflnr 2y ago
        Why are you so sure it's not a subtype? I'm not going to say that's always how the "<descriptor> <noun>" structure works, but you have to admit it's pretty common. (Ed: compare to "healthy adult", "terrestrial vertebrate", "clean socks", etc) You're literally the first person I've ever encountered with this idea, after reading/watching dozens of articles/talks about genre from people in the field. You're also the first person I've seen to mention the term "fish vegetarian", which is indeed stupid; that's probably why those people are usually called "pescatarians".
        thaumasiotes 2y ago
        > You're literally the first person I've ever encountered with this idea, after reading/watching dozens of articles/talks about genre from people in the field. That might be the problem. Taking an example from a different field, I am comfortable using the term "finite" to mean "more than zero". This is a common mathematical usage. (If you're curious, it contrasts "finite" with "infinitesimal" as opposed to "infinite".) People without mathematical training tend to object to it. If you're marketing books, because you're a bookstore, or a publisher, then you need to put clean romance somewhere, it shares most of its audience with romance, and it's natural to think of them as a group. But this is looking at the question from the wrong direction. If you ask "what's the term for a book with explicit sex scenes in it?", the answer to that is "a romance novel". I knew a Chinese World of Warcraft player who collected the item series called Steamy Romance Novels. ( https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Steamy_Romance_Novel https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Steamy_Romance_Novel ) She found them funny, but she remarked to me once that they seemed a lot more sexual than the title, "romance novel", implied. I put this down to unfamiliarity with English. Do you think more of the English-speaking player base should be confused by the items?

> "Whims said her content is explicit" Shouldn't that be called Erotica rather than Romance, then?

thaumasiotes 2y ago

No, explicit content is what "romance" means.

andrewflnr 2y ago
It's absolutely not. Romance is a big term containing, among other things, subcategories that are resolutions resolutely against any explicit content. FWIW "erotica" is probably also wrong for similar but oppositely directed reasons.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  Where are you getting this? "Romance novel" means a pornographic novel. The term is euphemistic, and universally understood. Compare this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/comments/r8cqrh/are_there_any_romance_books_without_sex/ https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/comments/r8cqrh/are_th... Where, as you can see, the title is "are there any romance books without sex?", the poster acknowledges that this is a strange thing to ask, and the responses identify special terms for romance novels that are missing the defining feature of the genre.
  - andrewflnr 2y ago
    Because I'm an aspiring writer who learns a lot of things about publishing by the wayside. Romance is a major genre and frequently discussed, including its subdivisions like "clean", "open/closed door", etc. And the top replies in that thread clearly agree with me, so I don't know why you think it's helping your case. Edit: and actually, you made an even stronger claim that romance and "explicit content" are definitionally equal, which really suggests you've never heard the term "erotica" which is well-established to be different from "romance".
    - thaumasiotes 2y ago
      > And the top replies in that thread clearly agree with me, so I don't know why you think it's helping your case. Because they don't agree with you. "Clean romance" is to "romance" as "fish vegetarian" is to "vegetarian". It's a contrast, not a subtype. The idea that "clean romance" is "romance without sex scenes" immediately tells you that "romance" includes sex scenes. That's what "the exception that proves the rule" means. I'm familiar with the term "erotica". It is not restricted to books, but erotica in book form goes under the name "romance novels".
      - andrewflnr 2y ago
        Why are you so sure it's not a subtype? I'm not going to say that's always how the "<descriptor> <noun>" structure works, but you have to admit it's pretty common. (Ed: compare to "healthy adult", "terrestrial vertebrate", "clean socks", etc) You're literally the first person I've ever encountered with this idea, after reading/watching dozens of articles/talks about genre from people in the field. You're also the first person I've seen to mention the term "fish vegetarian", which is indeed stupid; that's probably why those people are usually called "pescatarians".
        thaumasiotes 2y ago
        > You're literally the first person I've ever encountered with this idea, after reading/watching dozens of articles/talks about genre from people in the field. That might be the problem. Taking an example from a different field, I am comfortable using the term "finite" to mean "more than zero". This is a common mathematical usage. (If you're curious, it contrasts "finite" with "infinitesimal" as opposed to "infinite".) People without mathematical training tend to object to it. If you're marketing books, because you're a bookstore, or a publisher, then you need to put clean romance somewhere, it shares most of its audience with romance, and it's natural to think of them as a group. But this is looking at the question from the wrong direction. If you ask "what's the term for a book with explicit sex scenes in it?", the answer to that is "a romance novel". I knew a Chinese World of Warcraft player who collected the item series called Steamy Romance Novels. ( https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Steamy_Romance_Novel https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Steamy_Romance_Novel ) She found them funny, but she remarked to me once that they seemed a lot more sexual than the title, "romance novel", implied. I put this down to unfamiliarity with English. Do you think more of the English-speaking player base should be confused by the items?