4 ms·

I still would like to search and not get the dog crap that is Google's Internet, in addition to using LLMs myself.

komali2 2y ago
Non LLM efforts include alternative and even self hosted search engine indexes. I'm also curious if brave search's concept of "goggles" could work out, where you can write your own indexing logic and share it with others.
- frabjoused 2y ago
  We don't need self-hosted alternatives (just like the computer market doesn't need Linux tinkerers) as much as we need a real formidable competitor to dethrone Google and create proper website incentives so the Internet stops sucking. We need SEO companies to realize they will go out of business if they continue to generate crap filler content for their clients. We know Google won't do it. We need influence. We need effective results. Self-hosted is cute but ineffective at best, selfish at worst.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
    Hmm, I reflexively disagree, but I disagree even after considering it from other different positions. Need is a strong term and it is likely doing a lot of work in that claim. We, technically, do not need much bar food, water and shelter. In that sense, the post is absolutely correct. Realistically, there is zero need for self-hosting, or linux, or anything much really. But even if we get past the need claim, why is setting up a duopoly a preferred option to people actually running their own preferred setups ( and maybe even learning something in the process )? More importantly, why on earth would I want yet another giant corporation in charge of my digital life? << create proper website incentives so the Internet stops sucking. Interestingly, linux tinkerers and self-hosters are likely one of the few reasons web does not suck AS much as it otherwise could have. In a sense, the incentives are there. << We need SEO companies to realize they will go out of business if they continue to generate crap filler content for their clients. Business is just that.. a business. I don't expect mosquito not to bite me. If anything, the whole premise is wrong. SEO companies defer to google's wishes and google heard the pleas of the ad industry and declared war on adblockers. << We need influence. We need effective results. Zero disagreement. << Self-hosted is cute but ineffective at best, selfish at worst. I dunno. It might be selfish, but I am ok with that if that is the worst. I would worry about it being ineffective, but.. I like my various instances. They serve a purpose to me.
voisin 2y ago
I agree. My issue with LLMs is that it isn’t clear when it is hallucinating versus when it isn’t.
- docandrew 2y ago
  It’s always hallucinating… but sometimes the hallucinations are of things that actually happened.
szszrk 2y ago
I know it's the other way around of what you are suggesting, but I feel I'm using Kagi for a while for the same reasons, with results you expect. Their search is much, much cleaner, that's for sure. But what made me stick (and mostly ditch DDG, which btw is also much cleaner than google), was how well their fastgpt works as a search tool. Summaries are very good, it includes recent events and news, it goes through pdfs, always cites it's sources. Does hallucinate for me sometimes, but I always can tell it's incorrect by the response itself. Plus it usually gives me links that easily clear out the confusion. Especially in IT field I can tell I'm fed with the source of my trouble (like initial GitHub issue that introduces broken functionality, source pdf of a study) and less discussion around it. Their search has some neat features as well, as you can simply choose to see less/no results from given site straight from list of search results.
- dmje 2y ago
  Yes - and the other killer feature in Kagi is being able to uprank your own choice of sites, and set contexts for this upranking. That to me is the killer thing about it
TexanFeller 2y ago
Switch to Kagi, IMHO it's worlds better than Google. It's worth the price, I get a lot more out of it than my Netflix subscription.

Non LLM efforts include alternative and even self hosted search engine indexes. I'm also curious if brave search's concept of "goggles" could work out, where you can write your own indexing logic and share it with others.

frabjoused 2y ago
We don't need self-hosted alternatives (just like the computer market doesn't need Linux tinkerers) as much as we need a real formidable competitor to dethrone Google and create proper website incentives so the Internet stops sucking. We need SEO companies to realize they will go out of business if they continue to generate crap filler content for their clients. We know Google won't do it. We need influence. We need effective results. Self-hosted is cute but ineffective at best, selfish at worst.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
  Hmm, I reflexively disagree, but I disagree even after considering it from other different positions. Need is a strong term and it is likely doing a lot of work in that claim. We, technically, do not need much bar food, water and shelter. In that sense, the post is absolutely correct. Realistically, there is zero need for self-hosting, or linux, or anything much really. But even if we get past the need claim, why is setting up a duopoly a preferred option to people actually running their own preferred setups ( and maybe even learning something in the process )? More importantly, why on earth would I want yet another giant corporation in charge of my digital life? << create proper website incentives so the Internet stops sucking. Interestingly, linux tinkerers and self-hosters are likely one of the few reasons web does not suck AS much as it otherwise could have. In a sense, the incentives are there. << We need SEO companies to realize they will go out of business if they continue to generate crap filler content for their clients. Business is just that.. a business. I don't expect mosquito not to bite me. If anything, the whole premise is wrong. SEO companies defer to google's wishes and google heard the pleas of the ad industry and declared war on adblockers. << We need influence. We need effective results. Zero disagreement. << Self-hosted is cute but ineffective at best, selfish at worst. I dunno. It might be selfish, but I am ok with that if that is the worst. I would worry about it being ineffective, but.. I like my various instances. They serve a purpose to me.

voisin 2y ago

I agree. My issue with LLMs is that it isn’t clear when it is hallucinating versus when it isn’t.

docandrew 2y ago
It’s always hallucinating… but sometimes the hallucinations are of things that actually happened.

szszrk 2y ago

I know it's the other way around of what you are suggesting, but I feel I'm using Kagi for a while for the same reasons, with results you expect. Their search is much, much cleaner, that's for sure. But what made me stick (and mostly ditch DDG, which btw is also much cleaner than google), was how well their fastgpt works as a search tool. Summaries are very good, it includes recent events and news, it goes through pdfs, always cites it's sources. Does hallucinate for me sometimes, but I always can tell it's incorrect by the response itself. Plus it usually gives me links that easily clear out the confusion. Especially in IT field I can tell I'm fed with the source of my trouble (like initial GitHub issue that introduces broken functionality, source pdf of a study) and less discussion around it. Their search has some neat features as well, as you can simply choose to see less/no results from given site straight from list of search results.

dmje 2y ago
Yes - and the other killer feature in Kagi is being able to uprank your own choice of sites, and set contexts for this upranking. That to me is the killer thing about it

TexanFeller 2y ago

Switch to Kagi, IMHO it's worlds better than Google. It's worth the price, I get a lot more out of it than my Netflix subscription.