4 ms·

I honestly wonder whether people would drink alcohol if there weren't intoxicating effects. What I mean is, does anyone really believe that alcohol is pleasant

I honestly wonder whether people would drink alcohol if there weren't intoxicating effects. What I mean is, does anyone really believe that alcohol is pleasant to drink or is that purely a trick of the mind/body to get you to satisfy the craving?

shepherdjerred 2y ago
Plenty of people drink alcohol in moderation, e.g. only having 1-2 drinks at a social event, pairing a while for dinner, trying a new cocktail, etc.
- jebarker 2y ago
  Sure, but maybe it's a really powerful drug that has a small effective dose for some people?
  - shepherdjerred 2y ago
    I have known some people to have an absurdly low tolerance (or at least act drunk after two standard drinks), but I don't think it's that common. I do have plenty of friends who drink in moderation simply because they enjoy the taste of beer/wine and almost never get drunk (they might drink enough to be drunk once a year). I think the comparison is most understandable when you compare alcohol to caffeine. Some people drink coffee for the sake of the caffeine, but some also just genuinely enjoy the taste/social aspect (hence why decaf exists).
    - khazhoux 2y ago
      Don't know how common it is, but my tolerance is super low. Even a single sip of wine, and I'll start to feel pressure in temples. One full glass and my head movement -> visual perception latency will be noticeable, and my words will start a bit getting in the order wrong. That one glass will also hit me like a sleeping pill within an hour. And if it's beer or red wine, I'll enjoy itchy arms, chest, and legs for a couple of hours. So partially a reaction to alcohol (the sleepiness for sure) and partially an allergic reaction to tannins/hops/etc. I love a riesling or a mint mojito, but I keep to probably one drink every few months... and then regret it all over again. On the other hand, there's so many alcoholics in my extended family and my best friends growing up, that I consider my body's rejection of alcohol to be a strong contributor to me being successful in life and work.
sodapopcan 2y ago
I certainly don't speak for everyone but I certainly drank for the effects. I do like the flavour of beer but it was all about the effects. I could never have just one or two (which is why I no longer drink). Again, I don't speak for everyone. I do know people who drink frequently without ever getting drunk, but obviously even one drink has some effect.
swatcoder 2y ago
Fermentation, distillation, and aging can all create unique and incredibly rich flavors that may be very compelling on their own or as complements to other flavors in food and drink. Perhaps you haven't tried very many and haven't run into any you like, but they're sure out there. From a culinary perspective, it's no accident that wines and beers and spirits represent enormous industries around the world and have done so for centuries. If it was all just about getting tipsy or drunk, you'd expect there to be just a few "winners" of the market rather than the incredible variety we seem to have instead.
- jebarker 2y ago
  I drink, probably too much, and feel like I enjoy the flavors of many different drinks. But I don't think that's evidence that it's not really just a chemical dependence. I certainly remember there was a time when I didn't enjoy the flavors I believe I do now. Your point about variety is good but, again playing devil's advocate, maybe that's necessary to keep drinking socially acceptable and sustain the illusion that there's more to it than just addiction? The most convincing argument though is that we do enjoy the flavors of fermented things that aren't intoxicating.
abtinf 2y ago
I enjoy peaty Islay scotches. I can sip a single serving over an hour, savoring the flavor, with zero intoxicating effects.
abtinf 2y ago
Non-alcoholic beer is an entire product category and popular in the Middle East. Russians have a fermented bread drink called Kvass that is <1% alcohol.
- abtinf 2y ago
  Oh, and then there's kombucha.
aeturnum 2y ago
It's both right? Alcohol is a dopaminergic[1] in all amounts. Your brain, to some degree, likes you drinking (which may be offset by side effects). A much smaller group of people genuinely enjoy the taste and physical experience of drinking alcohol. Non-alcoholic taste-matched substitutes are common. I strongly suspect that, if alcohol was banned, you would see a bigger market for taste-matched "mocktails" with the same sharp, chemical undertones. However, there's no market now because moderate drinkers can just get a drink and people who don't like they taste don't want them. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6826820/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6826820/
- abtinf 2y ago
  > no market Mocktail mixers are a small but readily available product, e.g. Seedlip.
  - aeturnum 2y ago
    Oh! That's great. The mocktails I've seen are generally complex, well-crafted drinks that are missing the bite that makes alcoholic drinks so satisfying to sip. I guess I need to check out more mocktails.
noirbot 2y ago
It was mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but alcohol is an amazing chemical for absorbing other potent flavors. It's why it's commonly used for herb extracts and medicines. Part of what I like about many alcoholic drinks is they have pungent flavors that are hard to find elsewhere. An herbal liquor is going to often have much stronger flavor of the herbs than you'd get from making a tea or a soda. There's also more diversity in the options because it's a natural preservative. Much easier for a store to stock niche-flavored spirits in small quantities when they functionally never go bad, which in turn helps keep a market for niche products that wouldn't exist if they needed steady high demand. Even something as popular as Fernet Branca doesn't really have a flavor equal in any other beverage class.

shepherdjerred 2y ago

Plenty of people drink alcohol in moderation, e.g. only having 1-2 drinks at a social event, pairing a while for dinner, trying a new cocktail, etc.

jebarker 2y ago
Sure, but maybe it's a really powerful drug that has a small effective dose for some people?
- shepherdjerred 2y ago
  I have known some people to have an absurdly low tolerance (or at least act drunk after two standard drinks), but I don't think it's that common. I do have plenty of friends who drink in moderation simply because they enjoy the taste of beer/wine and almost never get drunk (they might drink enough to be drunk once a year). I think the comparison is most understandable when you compare alcohol to caffeine. Some people drink coffee for the sake of the caffeine, but some also just genuinely enjoy the taste/social aspect (hence why decaf exists).
  - khazhoux 2y ago
    Don't know how common it is, but my tolerance is super low. Even a single sip of wine, and I'll start to feel pressure in temples. One full glass and my head movement -> visual perception latency will be noticeable, and my words will start a bit getting in the order wrong. That one glass will also hit me like a sleeping pill within an hour. And if it's beer or red wine, I'll enjoy itchy arms, chest, and legs for a couple of hours. So partially a reaction to alcohol (the sleepiness for sure) and partially an allergic reaction to tannins/hops/etc. I love a riesling or a mint mojito, but I keep to probably one drink every few months... and then regret it all over again. On the other hand, there's so many alcoholics in my extended family and my best friends growing up, that I consider my body's rejection of alcohol to be a strong contributor to me being successful in life and work.

sodapopcan 2y ago

I certainly don't speak for everyone but I certainly drank for the effects. I do like the flavour of beer but it was all about the effects. I could never have just one or two (which is why I no longer drink). Again, I don't speak for everyone. I do know people who drink frequently without ever getting drunk, but obviously even one drink has some effect.

swatcoder 2y ago

Fermentation, distillation, and aging can all create unique and incredibly rich flavors that may be very compelling on their own or as complements to other flavors in food and drink. Perhaps you haven't tried very many and haven't run into any you like, but they're sure out there. From a culinary perspective, it's no accident that wines and beers and spirits represent enormous industries around the world and have done so for centuries. If it was all just about getting tipsy or drunk, you'd expect there to be just a few "winners" of the market rather than the incredible variety we seem to have instead.

jebarker 2y ago
I drink, probably too much, and feel like I enjoy the flavors of many different drinks. But I don't think that's evidence that it's not really just a chemical dependence. I certainly remember there was a time when I didn't enjoy the flavors I believe I do now. Your point about variety is good but, again playing devil's advocate, maybe that's necessary to keep drinking socially acceptable and sustain the illusion that there's more to it than just addiction? The most convincing argument though is that we do enjoy the flavors of fermented things that aren't intoxicating.

abtinf 2y ago

I enjoy peaty Islay scotches. I can sip a single serving over an hour, savoring the flavor, with zero intoxicating effects.

abtinf 2y ago

Non-alcoholic beer is an entire product category and popular in the Middle East. Russians have a fermented bread drink called Kvass that is <1% alcohol.

abtinf 2y ago
Oh, and then there's kombucha.

aeturnum 2y ago

It's both right? Alcohol is a dopaminergic[1] in all amounts. Your brain, to some degree, likes you drinking (which may be offset by side effects). A much smaller group of people genuinely enjoy the taste and physical experience of drinking alcohol. Non-alcoholic taste-matched substitutes are common. I strongly suspect that, if alcohol was banned, you would see a bigger market for taste-matched "mocktails" with the same sharp, chemical undertones. However, there's no market now because moderate drinkers can just get a drink and people who don't like they taste don't want them. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6826820/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6826820/

abtinf 2y ago
> no market Mocktail mixers are a small but readily available product, e.g. Seedlip.
- aeturnum 2y ago
  Oh! That's great. The mocktails I've seen are generally complex, well-crafted drinks that are missing the bite that makes alcoholic drinks so satisfying to sip. I guess I need to check out more mocktails.

noirbot 2y ago

It was mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but alcohol is an amazing chemical for absorbing other potent flavors. It's why it's commonly used for herb extracts and medicines. Part of what I like about many alcoholic drinks is they have pungent flavors that are hard to find elsewhere. An herbal liquor is going to often have much stronger flavor of the herbs than you'd get from making a tea or a soda. There's also more diversity in the options because it's a natural preservative. Much easier for a store to stock niche-flavored spirits in small quantities when they functionally never go bad, which in turn helps keep a market for niche products that wouldn't exist if they needed steady high demand. Even something as popular as Fernet Branca doesn't really have a flavor equal in any other beverage class.