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Major concerns raised over cellphone radiation studies [video]

14 points by mgh2 2y ago

vel0city 2y ago
The guy claims the regulatory label tells you not to use it closer than 5mm from your body. Reading the "Radio frequency exposure" notice on my phone, it says > In the countries where the Specific Absorption Rate (SAR) limit is 1.6 W/kg averaged over one gram of tissue, the highest SAR values for this device type are 1.19 W/kg for Pixel 6a (GB62Z) or 1.18 W/kg for Pixel 6a (GX7AS) W/kg when used against head with no separation and 1.19 W/kg for Pixel 6a (GB62Z) or 1.19 W/kg for Pixel 6a (GX7AS) W/kg against body with 1.0 cm (0.4 in) separation. In the countries where the Specific Absorption Rate (SAR) limit is 2.0 W/kg averaged over ten grams of tissue, the highest SAR values for this device type are 0.99 W/kg when used against head with no separation and 1.31 W/kg against body with 5 mm (0.2 in) separation. https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/11542583?hl=en https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/11542583?hl=en For an iPhone, it has this: > During testing, iPhone radios are set to their highest transmission levels and SAR is evaluated in real time, over time intervals as specified by applicable regulations. iPhone is evaluated in positions that simulate uses against the head, with no separation, and when worn or carried against the torso of the body, with 5mm separation. https://regulatoryinfo.apple.com/rfexposure/iPhone15,4/en https://regulatoryinfo.apple.com/rfexposure/iPhone15,4/en So no, it doesn't say you're supposed to use it at least 5mm away from your body. It says its designed to meet SAR exposure values with no separation. But hey I wouldn't expect a person like this to actually be honest.
Dig1t 2y ago
Would love to hear from radio engineer type people on HN, I was under the impression that exposure to non-ionizing radiation is fine. Are there any real negative effects of large exposure to non-ionizing radiation?
- mrguyorama 2y ago
  >Are there any real negative effects of large exposure to non-ionizing radiation? Yes, at the point of kilowatts you start to just straight up cook. Ionizing radiation is dangerous because each individual "quanta/packet" of energy, ie photon, contains enough energy to knock electrons off of individual atoms. It fills your body with "free radicals" and chemically active molecules that start ripping apart other molecules in your body to get their preferred electron state back. Sometimes this destruction involves molecules of DNA, and sometimes sometimes that DNA is affected in a way that gets past the normal correction mechanisms in our cell, and sometimes sometimes sometimes, the stars align, and that cell does a cancer. People get afraid of the cancer because they don't really understand how electromagnetic radiation works and they have very little experience with ionizing radiation. Except that's a lie, every human around has extensive experience with a significant source of Ionizing radiation that they deal with literally every day; The Sun puts out something like 50ish watts per square meter of UV radiation. Every sun burn is a radiation burn, caused by UV photons ionizing the molecules in your body. The purpose of melanin in your body is to safely absorb as much of that UV radiation as possible. The photons released by a cell phone cannot do that. They physically cannot knock electrons off of atoms to create ions. This is called the photoelectric effect and was one of the key findings to kick off the entire field of quantum physics. No matter how many low frequency photons you shoot at an atom, no longer how long, you will not ionize that atom. These low energy/frequency photons will still cause radiative heating, which is the way your microwave cooks food. Notably, consumer microwaves put out a Kilowatt of radio frequency energy. Your cell phone puts out less than 3 watts of "effective" radio frequency energy, so less if it has a better/smarter antenna setup. That is the maximum, averaged output for FCC certification in the US.
jtrn 2y ago
Unsinkable rubber duck. https://theness.com/neurologicablog/underwhelming-cell-phone-rat-study/ https://theness.com/neurologicablog/underwhelming-cell-phone... No amount of evidence is going to stop people from claiming danger of cell phone radiation.
matthewdgreen 2y ago
When I see an important-looking headline like this and then the link is to a YouTube video, my immediate thought is that somebody is optimizing for revenue rather than trying to put out useful information that helps people.

14 points by mgh2 2y ago

The guy claims the regulatory label tells you not to use it closer than 5mm from your body. Reading the "Radio frequency exposure" notice on my phone, it says > In the countries where the Specific Absorption Rate (SAR) limit is 1.6 W/kg averaged over one gram of tissue, the highest SAR values for this device type are 1.19 W/kg for Pixel 6a (GB62Z) or 1.18 W/kg for Pixel 6a (GX7AS) W/kg when used against head with no separation and 1.19 W/kg for Pixel 6a (GB62Z) or 1.19 W/kg for Pixel 6a (GX7AS) W/kg against body with 1.0 cm (0.4 in) separation. In the countries where the Specific Absorption Rate (SAR) limit is 2.0 W/kg averaged over ten grams of tissue, the highest SAR values for this device type are 0.99 W/kg when used against head with no separation and 1.31 W/kg against body with 5 mm (0.2 in) separation. https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/11542583?hl=en https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/11542583?hl=en For an iPhone, it has this: > During testing, iPhone radios are set to their highest transmission levels and SAR is evaluated in real time, over time intervals as specified by applicable regulations. iPhone is evaluated in positions that simulate uses against the head, with no separation, and when worn or carried against the torso of the body, with 5mm separation. https://regulatoryinfo.apple.com/rfexposure/iPhone15,4/en https://regulatoryinfo.apple.com/rfexposure/iPhone15,4/en So no, it doesn't say you're supposed to use it at least 5mm away from your body. It says its designed to meet SAR exposure values with no separation. But hey I wouldn't expect a person like this to actually be honest.

Dig1t 2y ago

Would love to hear from radio engineer type people on HN, I was under the impression that exposure to non-ionizing radiation is fine. Are there any real negative effects of large exposure to non-ionizing radiation?

mrguyorama 2y ago
>Are there any real negative effects of large exposure to non-ionizing radiation? Yes, at the point of kilowatts you start to just straight up cook. Ionizing radiation is dangerous because each individual "quanta/packet" of energy, ie photon, contains enough energy to knock electrons off of individual atoms. It fills your body with "free radicals" and chemically active molecules that start ripping apart other molecules in your body to get their preferred electron state back. Sometimes this destruction involves molecules of DNA, and sometimes sometimes that DNA is affected in a way that gets past the normal correction mechanisms in our cell, and sometimes sometimes sometimes, the stars align, and that cell does a cancer. People get afraid of the cancer because they don't really understand how electromagnetic radiation works and they have very little experience with ionizing radiation. Except that's a lie, every human around has extensive experience with a significant source of Ionizing radiation that they deal with literally every day; The Sun puts out something like 50ish watts per square meter of UV radiation. Every sun burn is a radiation burn, caused by UV photons ionizing the molecules in your body. The purpose of melanin in your body is to safely absorb as much of that UV radiation as possible. The photons released by a cell phone cannot do that. They physically cannot knock electrons off of atoms to create ions. This is called the photoelectric effect and was one of the key findings to kick off the entire field of quantum physics. No matter how many low frequency photons you shoot at an atom, no longer how long, you will not ionize that atom. These low energy/frequency photons will still cause radiative heating, which is the way your microwave cooks food. Notably, consumer microwaves put out a Kilowatt of radio frequency energy. Your cell phone puts out less than 3 watts of "effective" radio frequency energy, so less if it has a better/smarter antenna setup. That is the maximum, averaged output for FCC certification in the US.

jtrn 2y ago

Unsinkable rubber duck. https://theness.com/neurologicablog/underwhelming-cell-phone-rat-study/ https://theness.com/neurologicablog/underwhelming-cell-phone... No amount of evidence is going to stop people from claiming danger of cell phone radiation.

matthewdgreen 2y ago

When I see an important-looking headline like this and then the link is to a YouTube video, my immediate thought is that somebody is optimizing for revenue rather than trying to put out useful information that helps people.