4 ms·

Are you afraid for your and your family lives after posting this comment? If not, then it's not worse

exe34 2y ago
Did he complain about safety and freedom, or did he complain about censorship? Is it possible that corporate censorship in the west today is already worse than state censorship was in the USSR, due to the unavoidable encroachment of technology into everyday life and the surveillance/centralisation path that we've taken with the internet, without the impact on safety and freedom (yet)? Once you have the surveillance in place, it only takes a regime change and a suitable excuse (e.g. a terrorist attack) before you live in a dystopia worse than the USSR.
- gwervc 2y ago
  > Once you have the surveillance in place, it only takes a regime change and a suitable excuse Or just a pandemic. We've seen first hand how divergent speech was treated in "democratic" countries and how quickly algorithmic censorship was implemented on web products, especially those owned by Google.
- ivan_gammel 2y ago
  >is already worse than state censorship was in the USSR It is not. It is absolutely inadequate comparison.
  - exe34 2y ago
    What does censorship mean to you?
    - ivan_gammel 2y ago
      Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information. (Wikipedia)
      - exe34 2y ago
        and which part do you think Facebook/twitter/etc don't take part in?
        ivan_gammel 2y ago
        Wrong question. Of course they censor content. I did not say they don’t do it, I only pointed out that comparison to USSR is quite an exaggeration.
        exe34 2y ago
        what evidence would convince you that the comparison is apt?
        ivan_gammel 2y ago
        I know that such evidence does not exist, but if it were, a detailed comparison based on it would deserve a scientific degree. Neither a single corporation nor entire big tech considered together as a single actor can really compare with the scale and diversity of censorship of a totalitarian state.
        exe34 2y ago
        now try all the corporations together.
  - arsenico 2y ago
    Oh, it absolutely is. Censorship in USSR was manual labor. The scale at which its is operating today is incomparable, as is the amount of false positives which it captures, as well as the variety of censored topics across different institutions.
    - ivan_gammel 2y ago
      Manual vs automatic is irrelevant here. There was much less content to moderate if we talk about media. They could censor every single publication, movie or song manually. In oppressive regimes like USSR the censorship is total - the only escape is your kitchen (if you can really trust the people you talk to), in the West you are free to choose the platform and live peacefully in your bubble if you want.
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        ivan_gammel 2y ago
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rdtsc 2y ago
Not everyone who was censored was immediately in danger of being killed. That’s a false premise.

Did he complain about safety and freedom, or did he complain about censorship? Is it possible that corporate censorship in the west today is already worse than state censorship was in the USSR, due to the unavoidable encroachment of technology into everyday life and the surveillance/centralisation path that we've taken with the internet, without the impact on safety and freedom (yet)? Once you have the surveillance in place, it only takes a regime change and a suitable excuse (e.g. a terrorist attack) before you live in a dystopia worse than the USSR.

gwervc 2y ago
> Once you have the surveillance in place, it only takes a regime change and a suitable excuse Or just a pandemic. We've seen first hand how divergent speech was treated in "democratic" countries and how quickly algorithmic censorship was implemented on web products, especially those owned by Google.
ivan_gammel 2y ago
>is already worse than state censorship was in the USSR It is not. It is absolutely inadequate comparison.
- exe34 2y ago
  What does censorship mean to you?
  - ivan_gammel 2y ago
    Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information. (Wikipedia)
    - exe34 2y ago
      and which part do you think Facebook/twitter/etc don't take part in?
      - ivan_gammel 2y ago
        Wrong question. Of course they censor content. I did not say they don’t do it, I only pointed out that comparison to USSR is quite an exaggeration.
        exe34 2y ago
        what evidence would convince you that the comparison is apt?
        ivan_gammel 2y ago
        I know that such evidence does not exist, but if it were, a detailed comparison based on it would deserve a scientific degree. Neither a single corporation nor entire big tech considered together as a single actor can really compare with the scale and diversity of censorship of a totalitarian state.
        exe34 2y ago
        now try all the corporations together.
- arsenico 2y ago
  Oh, it absolutely is. Censorship in USSR was manual labor. The scale at which its is operating today is incomparable, as is the amount of false positives which it captures, as well as the variety of censored topics across different institutions.
  - ivan_gammel 2y ago
    Manual vs automatic is irrelevant here. There was much less content to moderate if we talk about media. They could censor every single publication, movie or song manually. In oppressive regimes like USSR the censorship is total - the only escape is your kitchen (if you can really trust the people you talk to), in the West you are free to choose the platform and live peacefully in your bubble if you want.
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rdtsc 2y ago

Not everyone who was censored was immediately in danger of being killed. That’s a false premise.