4 ms·

I'm of the opinion that nuclear is done for due to economical reasons, but yes, Chernobyl is very not relevant to any discussion of modern nuclear power. Chern

I'm of the opinion that nuclear is done for due to economical reasons, but yes, Chernobyl is very not relevant to any discussion of modern nuclear power. Chernobyl only happened due to the way that particular reactor type was made, and even back then nobody but the USSR did it that way, and the accident ensured nobody else ever did. Its failure mode is not inherent to nuclear but specific to the RBMK design. This new design has nothing to do with the RBMK.

rthnbgrredf 2y ago
Well, I don't think the reactor design mattered all that much to the many liquidator that died from cancer, but as you pointed out this is very not relevant to any discussion of modern nuclear power. For this reason I will leave it as that.
- dale_glass 2y ago
  > Well, I don't think the reactor design mattered all that much to the many liquidator that died from cancer Maybe not to them personally, but the reason they were needed, and died at all was the design. The RBMK's design was uniquely awful in that it had a positive void coefficient that lead to it blowing its top off, lacked a containment building to contain the mess, and the graphite moderator burns in the air and spews radioactive material into the air. That's a whole lot of things that could have been done far better, and are done better in modern designs. Better designs can still melt down, yes, but they lack such an awful failure mode. Liquidators were needed because the burning reactor was contaminating everything around it every second it was burning and uncovered. Better designs are less prone to failure in the first place, and when they fail it's more on the side of being a very expensive problem. They destroy the reactor but they don't require throwing lives at the problem to contain it.
  - rthnbgrredf 2y ago
    The key point I want to emphasize is that the specifics of reactor design become secondary given the multitude of other risks involved. Consider the example of Fukushima, which, despite having a modern and robust reactor design, still succumbed to disaster. Similarly, the potential risks to a nuclear power plant located in a conflict zone, such as Ukraine. Human factors further complicate safety measures, as the potential for human error or intentional sabotage (e.g., a terrorist attack) remains a constant threat. Moreover, natural disasters are indifferent to the technology used; they can devastate any facility, especially with increasing likelihood in the context of climate change. The only rational approach is to acknowledge that incidents like Chernobyl and Fukushima are, in a sense, 'normal'. They fall within the middle of the probability spectrum, which explains why they have occurred. The critical question is whether we are prepared to accept these kinds of accidents as a normal part of nuclear energy production. Much like car crashes, which no one wants, they happen despite all safety measures and are, statistically speaking, normal occurrences.
metabagel 2y ago
I think Fukushima shows that reactor accidents will happen from time to time, and when they happen, it's a disaster. Sure, you can say that the operators at Fukushima were negligent (they were), but that is something you have to account for. Negligence happens. Earthquakes happen. Hurricanes and tornadoes happen. Tsunamis happen. Wildfires happen. Terrorism happens.
- rthnbgrredf 2y ago
  Fukushima only happened due ... Fukushima was not as bad as perceived ... Lets continue nuclear energy, just look at france. Don't get me wrong. I'm not intending to troll. I'm honestly interested in new arguments, not the same copy and paste all over again.
- cesarb 2y ago
  > I think Fukushima shows that reactor accidents will happen from time to time, and when they happen, it's a disaster. IMO, the most important thing about Fukushima is not how much damage it might or might not have caused. The most important thing about Fukushima, is that it counters the argument that "Chernobyl could only happen because it was a bad Russian design" (often with an implied emphasis on it being a Russian design, instead of just being a bad design). The Fukushima reactors were not of a "bad Russian design", and yet the containment was breached and radioactive isotopes escaped. That is: before Fukushima, one could dismiss Chernobyl with a "this can't happen here". After Fukushima, it's harder to make that argument.

rthnbgrredf 2y ago

Well, I don't think the reactor design mattered all that much to the many liquidator that died from cancer, but as you pointed out this is very not relevant to any discussion of modern nuclear power. For this reason I will leave it as that.

dale_glass 2y ago
> Well, I don't think the reactor design mattered all that much to the many liquidator that died from cancer Maybe not to them personally, but the reason they were needed, and died at all was the design. The RBMK's design was uniquely awful in that it had a positive void coefficient that lead to it blowing its top off, lacked a containment building to contain the mess, and the graphite moderator burns in the air and spews radioactive material into the air. That's a whole lot of things that could have been done far better, and are done better in modern designs. Better designs can still melt down, yes, but they lack such an awful failure mode. Liquidators were needed because the burning reactor was contaminating everything around it every second it was burning and uncovered. Better designs are less prone to failure in the first place, and when they fail it's more on the side of being a very expensive problem. They destroy the reactor but they don't require throwing lives at the problem to contain it.
- rthnbgrredf 2y ago
  The key point I want to emphasize is that the specifics of reactor design become secondary given the multitude of other risks involved. Consider the example of Fukushima, which, despite having a modern and robust reactor design, still succumbed to disaster. Similarly, the potential risks to a nuclear power plant located in a conflict zone, such as Ukraine. Human factors further complicate safety measures, as the potential for human error or intentional sabotage (e.g., a terrorist attack) remains a constant threat. Moreover, natural disasters are indifferent to the technology used; they can devastate any facility, especially with increasing likelihood in the context of climate change. The only rational approach is to acknowledge that incidents like Chernobyl and Fukushima are, in a sense, 'normal'. They fall within the middle of the probability spectrum, which explains why they have occurred. The critical question is whether we are prepared to accept these kinds of accidents as a normal part of nuclear energy production. Much like car crashes, which no one wants, they happen despite all safety measures and are, statistically speaking, normal occurrences.

metabagel 2y ago

I think Fukushima shows that reactor accidents will happen from time to time, and when they happen, it's a disaster. Sure, you can say that the operators at Fukushima were negligent (they were), but that is something you have to account for. Negligence happens. Earthquakes happen. Hurricanes and tornadoes happen. Tsunamis happen. Wildfires happen. Terrorism happens.

rthnbgrredf 2y ago
Fukushima only happened due ... Fukushima was not as bad as perceived ... Lets continue nuclear energy, just look at france. Don't get me wrong. I'm not intending to troll. I'm honestly interested in new arguments, not the same copy and paste all over again.
cesarb 2y ago
> I think Fukushima shows that reactor accidents will happen from time to time, and when they happen, it's a disaster. IMO, the most important thing about Fukushima is not how much damage it might or might not have caused. The most important thing about Fukushima, is that it counters the argument that "Chernobyl could only happen because it was a bad Russian design" (often with an implied emphasis on it being a Russian design, instead of just being a bad design). The Fukushima reactors were not of a "bad Russian design", and yet the containment was breached and radioactive isotopes escaped. That is: before Fukushima, one could dismiss Chernobyl with a "this can't happen here". After Fukushima, it's harder to make that argument.