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Thank you for the examples. What is the alternative path and how should countries stay socialist? Are European countries not primarily socialist republics?

by bmitc 2y ago

sham1 2y ago
> Are European countries not primarily socialist republics? No? At most we're a continent of mostly social democracies. The workers don't own the means of production here in general, although cooperatives can be quite strong here. We also have way stronger labour unions than those in the US, for example (although funnily enough, in some ways that distances us from socialist republics since those tended to have the habit of banning labour unions, ironically enough), but these things don't make our countries socialist in nature. Personally, I come from a Nordic country (Finland). Now, some American socialist pundits and politicians, like Bernie Sanders rather famously, tried to argue that the Nordic model is socialist and that we're socialist countries. They'd be wrong on that. While welfare states, we also explicitly have free market economies, which was even brought up by the Danish prime minister after the Sanders comments in 2015 in direct response to the latter. And in general, many people here would probably even be slightly offended by calling us socialists, or at least confused by it. And I think that this would also be the case for people in other parts of Europe, and especially those who were on the Eastern Bloc.
prerok 2y ago
Emm, no, we are not. In Europe, in general, we do lean towards social-aware capitalism, which is still a far cry from a socialist republic. I know, I lived in one.
StackRanker3000 2y ago
> how should countries stay socialist? That’s a hard question, I don’t think there are any examples of long-lasting socialist societies of substantial size that have stayed particularly true to the purported ideology. If we think about social democracy instead, I believe you’d have to cultivate those values in the population, if they’re not there already, as well as a high level of social trust.

Thank you for the examples. What is the alternative path and how should countries stay socialist? Are European countries not primarily socialist republics?

by bmitc 2y ago

Thank you for the examples. What is the alternative path and how should countries stay socialist? Are European countries not primarily socialist republics?

sham1 2y ago

> Are European countries not primarily socialist republics? No? At most we're a continent of mostly social democracies. The workers don't own the means of production here in general, although cooperatives can be quite strong here. We also have way stronger labour unions than those in the US, for example (although funnily enough, in some ways that distances us from socialist republics since those tended to have the habit of banning labour unions, ironically enough), but these things don't make our countries socialist in nature. Personally, I come from a Nordic country (Finland). Now, some American socialist pundits and politicians, like Bernie Sanders rather famously, tried to argue that the Nordic model is socialist and that we're socialist countries. They'd be wrong on that. While welfare states, we also explicitly have free market economies, which was even brought up by the Danish prime minister after the Sanders comments in 2015 in direct response to the latter. And in general, many people here would probably even be slightly offended by calling us socialists, or at least confused by it. And I think that this would also be the case for people in other parts of Europe, and especially those who were on the Eastern Bloc.

prerok 2y ago

Emm, no, we are not. In Europe, in general, we do lean towards social-aware capitalism, which is still a far cry from a socialist republic. I know, I lived in one.

StackRanker3000 2y ago

> how should countries stay socialist? That’s a hard question, I don’t think there are any examples of long-lasting socialist societies of substantial size that have stayed particularly true to the purported ideology. If we think about social democracy instead, I believe you’d have to cultivate those values in the population, if they’re not there already, as well as a high level of social trust.