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I am very open to being wrong and changing course, but let's have a data-driven decision. When we launched our anti-theft feature, we were clear that if we fou

I am very open to being wrong and changing course, but let's have a data-driven decision. When we launched our anti-theft feature, we were clear that if we found there was widespread abuse, we would change course. We have had literally zero complaints of anyone being stalked with a device where anti-theft was enabled. And I think you are misunderstanding the new standards. Google and Apple will proactively notify thieves of nearby trackers, and allow a thief to disable it. This is next level bad for anyone relying on their tracking device to protect against theft. What is the data that would change your mind? I would change my mind if we found that more than .1% of our customers were abusing this feature.

koolba 2y ago
How is it an anti-theft device if the thief doesn’t know it’s there? I could see this being used in the aggregate to ascertain drop off points or chop shops, but at an individual level it doesn’t stop your stuff from being stolen. Even the aggregate case requires buy in from law enforcement to actually act on the information which is not a small thing.
- crhulls 2y ago
  Sure, I agree with that. We did user testing and people understood the concept. It is anti-theft in the sense you have a real chance of getting your stuff back, unlike with AirTags and now Google network devices where thieves will just disable the tracker.
rezonant 2y ago
> We have had literally zero complaints of anyone being stalked with a device where anti-theft was enabled. First, it's highly likely that someone being stalked wouldn't realize a tile device was the cause. Secondly, you said Tile and Life360 are on only 12% of devices. So maybe 1 out of 10 stalkers will be successful in using your device to stalk. That's not enough data to state so conclusively that this doesn't happen. I'm sure if Tile was more popular (and thus more functional) and more stalkers knew they were the best devices for stalking, they would use them.
hansvm 2y ago
As a personal bias, I believe companies like yours are pathologically unable to do the right thing. Take my reply with that in mind. I carefully examined life360.com, trying to put myself in the shoes of somebody who was stalked, magically divined that life360 was involved, and wanted to report the issue. The extent of my options on life360.com are: 1. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information And that's it. There does not exist a "contact us" or other general mechanism, and there certainly does not exist an abuse reporting mechanism. If that happens to exist behind other filters or paywalls then it's not relevant when discussing how the average customer would interact with your website. With that in mind, I would expect an exactly 0% abuse rate regardless of how abusive your product actually is. You confirm that number. I'm not surprised. The ball is in your court. How do you prove to the world that you _actually_ care about abuse? How _should_ a real abusee interact with your website? Why isn't it obvious? What are the exact numbers? And so on...
- crhulls 2y ago
  We have a member protection link at the bottom of our page - it is not buried. https://www.life360.com/member-protection-resources/ https://www.life360.com/member-protection-resources/ We encourage people to first go to the police, and we work with law enforcement to help bring criminals to justice on a regular basis.
  - WheatMillington 2y ago
    That link specifically dissuades anyone who is a victim from contacting your company. It directs them to contact police or a lawyer, and you provide no ability in that link to contact your company.
    - diebeforei485 2y ago
      Going to law enforcement is the way to resolve this. The company can then disclose the identity of the owner to law enforcement.
      - 2y ago

koolba 2y ago

How is it an anti-theft device if the thief doesn’t know it’s there? I could see this being used in the aggregate to ascertain drop off points or chop shops, but at an individual level it doesn’t stop your stuff from being stolen. Even the aggregate case requires buy in from law enforcement to actually act on the information which is not a small thing.

crhulls 2y ago
Sure, I agree with that. We did user testing and people understood the concept. It is anti-theft in the sense you have a real chance of getting your stuff back, unlike with AirTags and now Google network devices where thieves will just disable the tracker.

rezonant 2y ago

> We have had literally zero complaints of anyone being stalked with a device where anti-theft was enabled. First, it's highly likely that someone being stalked wouldn't realize a tile device was the cause. Secondly, you said Tile and Life360 are on only 12% of devices. So maybe 1 out of 10 stalkers will be successful in using your device to stalk. That's not enough data to state so conclusively that this doesn't happen. I'm sure if Tile was more popular (and thus more functional) and more stalkers knew they were the best devices for stalking, they would use them.

hansvm 2y ago

As a personal bias, I believe companies like yours are pathologically unable to do the right thing. Take my reply with that in mind. I carefully examined life360.com, trying to put myself in the shoes of somebody who was stalked, magically divined that life360 was involved, and wanted to report the issue. The extent of my options on life360.com are: 1. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information And that's it. There does not exist a "contact us" or other general mechanism, and there certainly does not exist an abuse reporting mechanism. If that happens to exist behind other filters or paywalls then it's not relevant when discussing how the average customer would interact with your website. With that in mind, I would expect an exactly 0% abuse rate regardless of how abusive your product actually is. You confirm that number. I'm not surprised. The ball is in your court. How do you prove to the world that you _actually_ care about abuse? How _should_ a real abusee interact with your website? Why isn't it obvious? What are the exact numbers? And so on...

crhulls 2y ago
We have a member protection link at the bottom of our page - it is not buried. https://www.life360.com/member-protection-resources/ https://www.life360.com/member-protection-resources/ We encourage people to first go to the police, and we work with law enforcement to help bring criminals to justice on a regular basis.
- WheatMillington 2y ago
  That link specifically dissuades anyone who is a victim from contacting your company. It directs them to contact police or a lawyer, and you provide no ability in that link to contact your company.
  - diebeforei485 2y ago
    Going to law enforcement is the way to resolve this. The company can then disclose the identity of the owner to law enforcement.
    - 2y ago