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Personally I feel like the anti-theft nature of these devices is massively outweighed by the horrible outcomes of stalking and clandestine tracking. They're not

Personally I feel like the anti-theft nature of these devices is massively outweighed by the horrible outcomes of stalking and clandestine tracking. They're not a theft deterrent, in fact they're generally hidden so a thief has no idea it's there. And what are you going to do, show up with a posse to get your stuff back? The world would be better if tracking devices did not exist. It's a shame you've decided to actively reject anti-stalking features.

jaimex2 2y ago
Try thinking before posting. You give the location of your missing property to the Police when stolen. Tile/Life360 is now a superior product while AirTags are basically useless paperweight. If you want to stalk someone you have always had numerous options including superior gps/cell based trackers.
- nvy 2y ago
  >You give the location of your missing property to the Police when stolen. They will do nothing.
  - FrankyFire 2y ago
    Maybe in the US, I know several cases where stolen bikes were returned and thieves charged in central Europe. I've never lost anything, but had a bike stolen and I'm in fear of having another one stolen. GPS trackers are not a real option for me (monthly fee, high battery consumption, not having an e-bike which would make it easier). These trackers are a great idea and I do get why stalking is an issue. But I'm with the Tile CEO when it comes to other or even better options for stalking. GPS trackers are way more accurate and I assume that swapping them or recharging them is less of a concern in that case. It's a shame that stalking is a concern. It's a shame that this had to be implemented and effectively breaks the devices use case for most people. But I'm not even mad at Apple or Google, because I also think that it is their responsibility to protect people from being stalked. Tile is also not an option for me, in Europe pretty much no one uses it. I will still try my luck with Apple and Google/Pebblebee Tags. Does anyone have experience how long it takes until you get notified about a tracker moving with you?
crhulls 2y ago
I am very open to being wrong and changing course, but let's have a data-driven decision. When we launched our anti-theft feature, we were clear that if we found there was widespread abuse, we would change course. We have had literally zero complaints of anyone being stalked with a device where anti-theft was enabled. And I think you are misunderstanding the new standards. Google and Apple will proactively notify thieves of nearby trackers, and allow a thief to disable it. This is next level bad for anyone relying on their tracking device to protect against theft. What is the data that would change your mind? I would change my mind if we found that more than .1% of our customers were abusing this feature.
- koolba 2y ago
  How is it an anti-theft device if the thief doesn’t know it’s there? I could see this being used in the aggregate to ascertain drop off points or chop shops, but at an individual level it doesn’t stop your stuff from being stolen. Even the aggregate case requires buy in from law enforcement to actually act on the information which is not a small thing.
  - crhulls 2y ago
    Sure, I agree with that. We did user testing and people understood the concept. It is anti-theft in the sense you have a real chance of getting your stuff back, unlike with AirTags and now Google network devices where thieves will just disable the tracker.
- rezonant 2y ago
  > We have had literally zero complaints of anyone being stalked with a device where anti-theft was enabled. First, it's highly likely that someone being stalked wouldn't realize a tile device was the cause. Secondly, you said Tile and Life360 are on only 12% of devices. So maybe 1 out of 10 stalkers will be successful in using your device to stalk. That's not enough data to state so conclusively that this doesn't happen. I'm sure if Tile was more popular (and thus more functional) and more stalkers knew they were the best devices for stalking, they would use them.
- 2y ago
golergka 2y ago
> They're not a theft deterrent, in fact they're generally hidden so a thief has no idea it's there. A potential car thief doesn't know if your car has an alarm on it either, but he just assumes that it does because most do. With wide enough adoption of these devices, it could work out the same.
- smt88 2y ago
  My 2022 car has a built in tracker. These will likely become standard.
zarzavat 2y ago
If you think stalking is more common than theft then you must live in a very, very low crime area.
- gpm 2y ago
  Theft is more common. Each instance of stalking does more damage. I haven't the faintest clue how I should weigh the cost against the benefit here, but I certainly don't like how the CEO here is blatantly attempting to downplay the stalking-enabling-externality their theft prevention device has.
- Bloating 2y ago
  Social projection is far more common than theft
- WheatMillington 2y ago
  I didn't say it's more common, but it's FAR more serious.

jaimex2 2y ago

Try thinking before posting. You give the location of your missing property to the Police when stolen. Tile/Life360 is now a superior product while AirTags are basically useless paperweight. If you want to stalk someone you have always had numerous options including superior gps/cell based trackers.

nvy 2y ago
>You give the location of your missing property to the Police when stolen. They will do nothing.
- FrankyFire 2y ago
  Maybe in the US, I know several cases where stolen bikes were returned and thieves charged in central Europe. I've never lost anything, but had a bike stolen and I'm in fear of having another one stolen. GPS trackers are not a real option for me (monthly fee, high battery consumption, not having an e-bike which would make it easier). These trackers are a great idea and I do get why stalking is an issue. But I'm with the Tile CEO when it comes to other or even better options for stalking. GPS trackers are way more accurate and I assume that swapping them or recharging them is less of a concern in that case. It's a shame that stalking is a concern. It's a shame that this had to be implemented and effectively breaks the devices use case for most people. But I'm not even mad at Apple or Google, because I also think that it is their responsibility to protect people from being stalked. Tile is also not an option for me, in Europe pretty much no one uses it. I will still try my luck with Apple and Google/Pebblebee Tags. Does anyone have experience how long it takes until you get notified about a tracker moving with you?

crhulls 2y ago

I am very open to being wrong and changing course, but let's have a data-driven decision. When we launched our anti-theft feature, we were clear that if we found there was widespread abuse, we would change course. We have had literally zero complaints of anyone being stalked with a device where anti-theft was enabled. And I think you are misunderstanding the new standards. Google and Apple will proactively notify thieves of nearby trackers, and allow a thief to disable it. This is next level bad for anyone relying on their tracking device to protect against theft. What is the data that would change your mind? I would change my mind if we found that more than .1% of our customers were abusing this feature.

koolba 2y ago
How is it an anti-theft device if the thief doesn’t know it’s there? I could see this being used in the aggregate to ascertain drop off points or chop shops, but at an individual level it doesn’t stop your stuff from being stolen. Even the aggregate case requires buy in from law enforcement to actually act on the information which is not a small thing.
- crhulls 2y ago
  Sure, I agree with that. We did user testing and people understood the concept. It is anti-theft in the sense you have a real chance of getting your stuff back, unlike with AirTags and now Google network devices where thieves will just disable the tracker.
rezonant 2y ago
> We have had literally zero complaints of anyone being stalked with a device where anti-theft was enabled. First, it's highly likely that someone being stalked wouldn't realize a tile device was the cause. Secondly, you said Tile and Life360 are on only 12% of devices. So maybe 1 out of 10 stalkers will be successful in using your device to stalk. That's not enough data to state so conclusively that this doesn't happen. I'm sure if Tile was more popular (and thus more functional) and more stalkers knew they were the best devices for stalking, they would use them.
2y ago

golergka 2y ago

> They're not a theft deterrent, in fact they're generally hidden so a thief has no idea it's there. A potential car thief doesn't know if your car has an alarm on it either, but he just assumes that it does because most do. With wide enough adoption of these devices, it could work out the same.

smt88 2y ago
My 2022 car has a built in tracker. These will likely become standard.

zarzavat 2y ago

If you think stalking is more common than theft then you must live in a very, very low crime area.

gpm 2y ago
Theft is more common. Each instance of stalking does more damage. I haven't the faintest clue how I should weigh the cost against the benefit here, but I certainly don't like how the CEO here is blatantly attempting to downplay the stalking-enabling-externality their theft prevention device has.
Bloating 2y ago
Social projection is far more common than theft
WheatMillington 2y ago
I didn't say it's more common, but it's FAR more serious.