4 ms·

Supporting Android 6 would be like supporting iOS 9. Apple is only supporting latest version of iOS (17.5).

runjake 2y ago
> Supporting Android 6 would be like supporting iOS 9. 1. Your point still stands, but this is because this update is probably shipping as a Google Play Framework update, which works on >= 6.0. Google is not (to my knowledge) releasing a new firmware. Apple would do well to decouple certain software components from iOS, IMHO. 2. In case others are curious about iOS version market share, statcounter's stats for April 2024: 17.4 (current until today): 51% 17.3: 22% 16.6: 4.3% 16.7: 3.18% 16.1: 2.8% 16.3: 2.12% https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/ios/mobile-tablet/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/ios/mobil...
- tjoff 2y ago
  Android 6: 0.79%
- tadfisher 2y ago
  As a developer, that long tail of folks on the previous major version really sucks with fast-moving frameworks like SwiftUI. There's no way my company (a banking app) would drop 10% of customers, so we typically do N-1 for iOS support. Our Android app shipped almost 3 years ago with minSdk=24 (Android 6.0) and we haven't had to update it.
  - afavour 2y ago
    The web browser is a big issue with this, too. A Safari release broke IndexedDB and they didn’t release a fix for over two months because browser updates are tied to the OS.
    - bzzzt 2y ago
      If there's a critical security update they can release an update within days. So it's got nothing to do with the complexity of releasing a new OS, it's just that they found IndexedDB not important enough to warrant an out of cycle update.
  - ilinx 2y ago
    I write apps for a large regional grocery store chain, and we have to support N-2. Even then we get support emails every time we bump it up.
    - flutas 2y ago
      I work on Android apps for a food company turned media network. We, to this day...with no talks of changing it any time soon, support all the way back to Android 5.0 (released in November on 2014).
      - Const-me 2y ago
        I mostly work on Windows apps. People still complain when software drops support of Windows 7 released in 2009, or Windows 8 released in 2012. Despite none of them are supported by Microsoft.
        mschuster91 2y ago
        It'd be a more fair comparison to take into account Windows 7's EOL which was just a year ago IIRC if you coughed up Extended Support money, its broad install base, and it being the last actually truly decent Windows that had a consistent UI across the place and no ads.
        onlytime 2y ago
        Windows 7 didn't have a consistent UI, though. In multiple places you could find Vista and XP-decorated panels. Your nostalgia is wrong.
        mavhc 2y ago
        https://ntdev.blog/2023/01/01/state-of-the-windows-how-many-layers-of-ui-inconsistencies-are-in-windows-11/ https://ntdev.blog/2023/01/01/state-of-the-windows-how-many-... Goes back to 3.1
        2y ago
- mattmaroon 2y ago
  So this has the downside of not being supported for Androids that don’t use Google Play services right? Like the Amazon tablets? Still a big win overall I’m just curious what number of devices basically don’t get important upgrades due to this method. (Surely a tiny amount compared to what you’d have if you relied on device manufacturers to update the OS.)
- kelnos 2y ago
  > Apple would do well to decouple certain software components from iOS I'm not really convinced of this. When you control the entire hardware and software stack, and already provide updates for 7+(?) years per model, would doing this really change much? Google needed to do that because some cheapo manufacturers weren't really providing any updates to speak of, and Google has limited ability to force manufacturers to provide updates on any particular schedule. It's funny, because to me this is really just the Linux model vs. BSD model, in a way. Linux base systems are cobbled together from various bits of software maintained by different people and groups. Many of those components can be updated independently of one another, including the kernel. The BSD model is to ship the entire base system as a versioned unit, and only update the entire thing monolithically. Android does the Linux model, iOS does the BSD model. Both models work just fine, depending on what your goals are and your distribution model. I think the one thing I'd argue Apple should decouple from the OS is Safari. A web browser (and the underlying OS web view) should be independently updateable, even after a device stops getting OS-level security updates.
hedgehog 2y ago
Google and Apple have fairly different platform software update strategies so I was curious how the support windows line up. Android 6 was the last supported release on devices like the Nexus 5 and Xperia Z3 from 2013 and 2014. iOS 9 was the last version supported for devices like the iPhone 4s and 3rd gen iPad that shipped in 2011 or 2012. Going forward to 2013 iPhones you have the 5s which was last supported in iOS 12. It sounds like Google is able to ship this directly rather than as an OS update that would need to go through manufacturers, while Apple typically deploys these type of fixes by pushing an OS update. I'm curious how far back they'll go, they rarely ship security fixes more than two major versions behind the current release (so maybe down to iOS 15, supporting devices released in 2015).
- scarface_74 2y ago
  You’re right iOS 15 got an update earlier this year. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_15 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_15
- GeekyBear 2y ago
  > they rarely ship security fixes more than two major versions Every flagship iPhone since 2011 has gotten at least five years of OS updates, with additional years of security updates after that. For instance, the original version of the iPhone SE is currently in its eighth year of support, and just got another security update a couple of weeks ago.
  - hedgehog 2y ago
    Two different things, Apple provides a pretty long window of OS updates for each device but doesn't ship updates for older OS versions. For example the 1st gen SE shipped with iOS 9 which has not been getting updates for a few years, but it can run iOS 15 which still seems to be getting security updates.
    - GeekyBear 2y ago
      It probably seems odd when you're coming from a history of devices with a very short support window, but you don't need to worry about years when you only get a security update until you run out of years when you get the OS AND security updates first. For instance, that original iPhone SE came out in 2016, the same year as the original Pixel phone. The iPhone is still supported by Apple today, while the Pixel phone was dropped from support by Google five years ago. Google had to come up with a way to backport features to older unsupported versions of the OS because their support window was so abysmally short. Hopefully, this won't be an issue going forward, with Google promising a comparable support window in the future.
scarface_74 2y ago
iOS 17.5 supports devices back to the iPhone XS released in 2018. iOS 17 runs on 80% of current iPhones in use https://telemetrydeck.com/blog/ios-market-share-03-24/#:~:text=iOS%2017%3A%2080.9%25%2C%20up%20from%2078.8%25%20in%20February&text=The%20overwhelming%20majority%20of%20iOS,of%20the%20TelemetryDeck%20data%20set https://telemetrydeck.com/blog/ios-market-share-03-24/#:~:te....

> Supporting Android 6 would be like supporting iOS 9. 1. Your point still stands, but this is because this update is probably shipping as a Google Play Framework update, which works on >= 6.0. Google is not (to my knowledge) releasing a new firmware. Apple would do well to decouple certain software components from iOS, IMHO. 2. In case others are curious about iOS version market share, statcounter's stats for April 2024: 17.4 (current until today): 51% 17.3: 22% 16.6: 4.3% 16.7: 3.18% 16.1: 2.8% 16.3: 2.12% https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/ios/mobile-tablet/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/ios/mobil...

tjoff 2y ago
Android 6: 0.79%
tadfisher 2y ago
As a developer, that long tail of folks on the previous major version really sucks with fast-moving frameworks like SwiftUI. There's no way my company (a banking app) would drop 10% of customers, so we typically do N-1 for iOS support. Our Android app shipped almost 3 years ago with minSdk=24 (Android 6.0) and we haven't had to update it.
- afavour 2y ago
  The web browser is a big issue with this, too. A Safari release broke IndexedDB and they didn’t release a fix for over two months because browser updates are tied to the OS.
  - bzzzt 2y ago
    If there's a critical security update they can release an update within days. So it's got nothing to do with the complexity of releasing a new OS, it's just that they found IndexedDB not important enough to warrant an out of cycle update.
- ilinx 2y ago
  I write apps for a large regional grocery store chain, and we have to support N-2. Even then we get support emails every time we bump it up.
  - flutas 2y ago
    I work on Android apps for a food company turned media network. We, to this day...with no talks of changing it any time soon, support all the way back to Android 5.0 (released in November on 2014).
    - Const-me 2y ago
      I mostly work on Windows apps. People still complain when software drops support of Windows 7 released in 2009, or Windows 8 released in 2012. Despite none of them are supported by Microsoft.
      - mschuster91 2y ago
        It'd be a more fair comparison to take into account Windows 7's EOL which was just a year ago IIRC if you coughed up Extended Support money, its broad install base, and it being the last actually truly decent Windows that had a consistent UI across the place and no ads.
        onlytime 2y ago
        Windows 7 didn't have a consistent UI, though. In multiple places you could find Vista and XP-decorated panels. Your nostalgia is wrong.
        mavhc 2y ago
        https://ntdev.blog/2023/01/01/state-of-the-windows-how-many-layers-of-ui-inconsistencies-are-in-windows-11/ https://ntdev.blog/2023/01/01/state-of-the-windows-how-many-... Goes back to 3.1
        2y ago
mattmaroon 2y ago
So this has the downside of not being supported for Androids that don’t use Google Play services right? Like the Amazon tablets? Still a big win overall I’m just curious what number of devices basically don’t get important upgrades due to this method. (Surely a tiny amount compared to what you’d have if you relied on device manufacturers to update the OS.)
kelnos 2y ago
> Apple would do well to decouple certain software components from iOS I'm not really convinced of this. When you control the entire hardware and software stack, and already provide updates for 7+(?) years per model, would doing this really change much? Google needed to do that because some cheapo manufacturers weren't really providing any updates to speak of, and Google has limited ability to force manufacturers to provide updates on any particular schedule. It's funny, because to me this is really just the Linux model vs. BSD model, in a way. Linux base systems are cobbled together from various bits of software maintained by different people and groups. Many of those components can be updated independently of one another, including the kernel. The BSD model is to ship the entire base system as a versioned unit, and only update the entire thing monolithically. Android does the Linux model, iOS does the BSD model. Both models work just fine, depending on what your goals are and your distribution model. I think the one thing I'd argue Apple should decouple from the OS is Safari. A web browser (and the underlying OS web view) should be independently updateable, even after a device stops getting OS-level security updates.

hedgehog 2y ago

Google and Apple have fairly different platform software update strategies so I was curious how the support windows line up. Android 6 was the last supported release on devices like the Nexus 5 and Xperia Z3 from 2013 and 2014. iOS 9 was the last version supported for devices like the iPhone 4s and 3rd gen iPad that shipped in 2011 or 2012. Going forward to 2013 iPhones you have the 5s which was last supported in iOS 12. It sounds like Google is able to ship this directly rather than as an OS update that would need to go through manufacturers, while Apple typically deploys these type of fixes by pushing an OS update. I'm curious how far back they'll go, they rarely ship security fixes more than two major versions behind the current release (so maybe down to iOS 15, supporting devices released in 2015).

scarface_74 2y ago
You’re right iOS 15 got an update earlier this year. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_15 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_15
GeekyBear 2y ago
> they rarely ship security fixes more than two major versions Every flagship iPhone since 2011 has gotten at least five years of OS updates, with additional years of security updates after that. For instance, the original version of the iPhone SE is currently in its eighth year of support, and just got another security update a couple of weeks ago.
- hedgehog 2y ago
  Two different things, Apple provides a pretty long window of OS updates for each device but doesn't ship updates for older OS versions. For example the 1st gen SE shipped with iOS 9 which has not been getting updates for a few years, but it can run iOS 15 which still seems to be getting security updates.
  - GeekyBear 2y ago
    It probably seems odd when you're coming from a history of devices with a very short support window, but you don't need to worry about years when you only get a security update until you run out of years when you get the OS AND security updates first. For instance, that original iPhone SE came out in 2016, the same year as the original Pixel phone. The iPhone is still supported by Apple today, while the Pixel phone was dropped from support by Google five years ago. Google had to come up with a way to backport features to older unsupported versions of the OS because their support window was so abysmally short. Hopefully, this won't be an issue going forward, with Google promising a comparable support window in the future.

scarface_74 2y ago

iOS 17.5 supports devices back to the iPhone XS released in 2018. iOS 17 runs on 80% of current iPhones in use https://telemetrydeck.com/blog/ios-market-share-03-24/#:~:text=iOS%2017%3A%2080.9%25%2C%20up%20from%2078.8%25%20in%20February&text=The%20overwhelming%20majority%20of%20iOS,of%20the%20TelemetryDeck%20data%20set https://telemetrydeck.com/blog/ios-market-share-03-24/#:~:te....