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Perfect example. Bottled water might be a luxury good for you, but in most places in the world you have polluted tap water you can die from or bottled water. S

Perfect example. Bottled water might be a luxury good for you, but in most places in the world you have polluted tap water you can die from or bottled water. So if you were in charge of this, you might have just killed a few million people from cholera. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/cholera https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/cholera I can't stress this enough, but there are so many unintended consequences.

yareal 2y ago
That's a false dichotomy though. Individual single use plastic bottles and cholera are not the only two options. Paper packaging, metal packaging, glass packaging, bulk packaging, improved infrastructure, filters, etc. I'm sure there are other reasonable options beyond single use plastic bottles.
- martinbaun 2y ago
  Well, if you're living in "Extreme Poverty", then you'll be earning around $2 a day. If you're earning $2 a day, then paying $.2 more for bottled water in paper is probably going to be detrimental for you. Around 1 billion people live in extreme poverty. So yes, there's alternatives for you and me, but not for a billion people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_poverty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_poverty
  - yareal 2y ago
    I'm aware. A glass bottle has a unit cost increase of approximately a penny per bottle (per CleanMetrics). But the bottle itself can be reused and recycled. Also, this assumes it's not in our best interest to subsidize this penny per bottle cost for our own health. Plastic trash ends up in our hydrocycle no matter where it is used. Also, reusable plastic aren't the problem either. A large, centrally fillable 5 gallon container is not likely to be used once and discarded. Are you really asserting that individual 12-40oz single use bottles of water are the best system we can imagine and what a million people use for daily water?
- xyzzyz 2y ago
  In what way paper, metal, or glass bottles are better than plastic?
  - CatWChainsaw 2y ago
    Aluminum can be almost 100% recycled IIRC and aluminum cans don't weigh a lot. You're getting the same product in better packaging.
    - SoftTalker 2y ago
      I would have expected the cost of aluminum cans to be an order of magnitude more than plastic bottles, but from some quick searching it appears it's not even double.
      - CatWChainsaw 2y ago
        Is that in their production or their recycling? Even if it is recycling, I'm pretty sure virgin plastic can be remade 6-7 times only.
    - giantg2 2y ago
      Aluminum cans are plastic lined
  - yareal 2y ago
    Paper biodegrades and can potentially be composted. If our ocean started filling with paper, existing biological systems would be able to address it. Metal and glass are reusable many, many more times than plastic and are sterilizable with heat. Both metal and glass are recyclable or inert in the environment. If a bottle ends up in the ocean it eventually becomes sand again. None of the above require oil to be produced. I'm not saying plastic has no upsides, I'm saying other options exist that specifically address the downsides of plastic. With materials we are always making trade offs.
  - QuercusMax 2y ago
    They can all be recycled in a much more meaningful way than plastic. Paper can biodegrade. Empty metal and glass bottles are easy to use as raw materials.
tialaramex 2y ago
I guess that fact sheet needs to be updated with your important revelations about how magically if they just have enough plastic bottles they'll solve cholera. And to think all this time we'd been worried about the safe drinking water and didn't realise that without enough plastic bottles it's all a waste of time.
jogjayr 2y ago
This does not ring true to me. From what I've seen living in India, people in extreme poverty don't buy bottled water. They boil or filter tap water at home. Middle-class and up people buy bottled water in restaurants or while traveling. I don't know anyone who drinks bottled water (aka Bisleri, the kleenex of bottled water in India) at home. Everyone has RO filters. I have only seen people in North America buying bottled water for everyday, at-home consumption. I think it is very wasteful.

yareal 2y ago

That's a false dichotomy though. Individual single use plastic bottles and cholera are not the only two options. Paper packaging, metal packaging, glass packaging, bulk packaging, improved infrastructure, filters, etc. I'm sure there are other reasonable options beyond single use plastic bottles.

martinbaun 2y ago
Well, if you're living in "Extreme Poverty", then you'll be earning around $2 a day. If you're earning $2 a day, then paying $.2 more for bottled water in paper is probably going to be detrimental for you. Around 1 billion people live in extreme poverty. So yes, there's alternatives for you and me, but not for a billion people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_poverty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_poverty
- yareal 2y ago
  I'm aware. A glass bottle has a unit cost increase of approximately a penny per bottle (per CleanMetrics). But the bottle itself can be reused and recycled. Also, this assumes it's not in our best interest to subsidize this penny per bottle cost for our own health. Plastic trash ends up in our hydrocycle no matter where it is used. Also, reusable plastic aren't the problem either. A large, centrally fillable 5 gallon container is not likely to be used once and discarded. Are you really asserting that individual 12-40oz single use bottles of water are the best system we can imagine and what a million people use for daily water?
xyzzyz 2y ago
In what way paper, metal, or glass bottles are better than plastic?
- CatWChainsaw 2y ago
  Aluminum can be almost 100% recycled IIRC and aluminum cans don't weigh a lot. You're getting the same product in better packaging.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    I would have expected the cost of aluminum cans to be an order of magnitude more than plastic bottles, but from some quick searching it appears it's not even double.
    - CatWChainsaw 2y ago
      Is that in their production or their recycling? Even if it is recycling, I'm pretty sure virgin plastic can be remade 6-7 times only.
  - giantg2 2y ago
    Aluminum cans are plastic lined
- yareal 2y ago
  Paper biodegrades and can potentially be composted. If our ocean started filling with paper, existing biological systems would be able to address it. Metal and glass are reusable many, many more times than plastic and are sterilizable with heat. Both metal and glass are recyclable or inert in the environment. If a bottle ends up in the ocean it eventually becomes sand again. None of the above require oil to be produced. I'm not saying plastic has no upsides, I'm saying other options exist that specifically address the downsides of plastic. With materials we are always making trade offs.
- QuercusMax 2y ago
  They can all be recycled in a much more meaningful way than plastic. Paper can biodegrade. Empty metal and glass bottles are easy to use as raw materials.

tialaramex 2y ago

I guess that fact sheet needs to be updated with your important revelations about how magically if they just have enough plastic bottles they'll solve cholera. And to think all this time we'd been worried about the safe drinking water and didn't realise that without enough plastic bottles it's all a waste of time.

jogjayr 2y ago

This does not ring true to me. From what I've seen living in India, people in extreme poverty don't buy bottled water. They boil or filter tap water at home. Middle-class and up people buy bottled water in restaurants or while traveling. I don't know anyone who drinks bottled water (aka Bisleri, the kleenex of bottled water in India) at home. Everyone has RO filters. I have only seen people in North America buying bottled water for everyday, at-home consumption. I think it is very wasteful.