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> It's good enough that Facebook, WhatsApp, and Skype use it for E2EE messages. Wait if it's the same why don't we just use Facebook, WhatsApp and Skype instea

> It's good enough that Facebook, WhatsApp, and Skype use it for E2EE messages. Wait if it's the same why don't we just use Facebook, WhatsApp and Skype instead of Signal?

lynndotpy 2y ago
It's only the protocol for their E2EE chats. There are two big caveats: - Facebook and Skype E2EE messages are optional, and people rarely use that option, and - Those apps collect a huge amount of data outside the contents of the messages.
- reportgunner 2y ago
  Still I think mentioning the greatest data collection projects in human history in the same sentence as Signal which is supposed to fight that is not very good.
  - lynndotpy 2y ago
    Only that the protocol is an accepted standard. Very, very, very little of what's shared over Facebook is E2EE.
noman-land 2y ago
Why don't you go to the local casino to chat with friends? They serve the same beer.
- reportgunner 2y ago
  Fair point, I've never been to a local casino but I figure the same beer will be more expensive there.
palata 2y ago
Don't forget that Signal is the name of the app, and "Signal Protocol" is the name of the E2EE protocol. The parent was talking about the Signal Protocol. The fact that Facebook, WhatsApp, etc. use the Signal Protocol kind of shows that it is an accepted standard. But of course there are many reasons to use Signal (the App) instead of those apps, for instance: - The Signal App is open source. You can check the protocol implementation before you use it. For Facebook, WhatsApp and Skype, you have to trust them (or some audits). - E2EE is only one part: it ensures that nobody except the recipient can read the content of your messages. But there is a whole story around the metadata. The metadata say who writes to whom, and when. It essentially helps build a social graph. Facebook is very interested in this social graph. It would appear that the Signal Foundation is not. And even if it is not perfect, Signal does a lot to try to minimize the amount of metadata it has access to (and quite obviously Facebook has a huge incentive not to do that). This said, IMHO it is still a lot better to use WhatsApp than to use Telegram, because at least you benefit from a good E2EE.

> It's good enough that Facebook, WhatsApp, and Skype use it for E2EE messages. Wait if it's the same why don't we just use Facebook, WhatsApp and Skype instead of Signal?

lynndotpy 2y ago

It's only the protocol for their E2EE chats. There are two big caveats: - Facebook and Skype E2EE messages are optional, and people rarely use that option, and - Those apps collect a huge amount of data outside the contents of the messages.

reportgunner 2y ago
Still I think mentioning the greatest data collection projects in human history in the same sentence as Signal which is supposed to fight that is not very good.
- lynndotpy 2y ago
  Only that the protocol is an accepted standard. Very, very, very little of what's shared over Facebook is E2EE.

noman-land 2y ago

Why don't you go to the local casino to chat with friends? They serve the same beer.

reportgunner 2y ago
Fair point, I've never been to a local casino but I figure the same beer will be more expensive there.

palata 2y ago

Don't forget that Signal is the name of the app, and "Signal Protocol" is the name of the E2EE protocol. The parent was talking about the Signal Protocol. The fact that Facebook, WhatsApp, etc. use the Signal Protocol kind of shows that it is an accepted standard. But of course there are many reasons to use Signal (the App) instead of those apps, for instance: - The Signal App is open source. You can check the protocol implementation before you use it. For Facebook, WhatsApp and Skype, you have to trust them (or some audits). - E2EE is only one part: it ensures that nobody except the recipient can read the content of your messages. But there is a whole story around the metadata. The metadata say who writes to whom, and when. It essentially helps build a social graph. Facebook is very interested in this social graph. It would appear that the Signal Foundation is not. And even if it is not perfect, Signal does a lot to try to minimize the amount of metadata it has access to (and quite obviously Facebook has a huge incentive not to do that). This said, IMHO it is still a lot better to use WhatsApp than to use Telegram, because at least you benefit from a good E2EE.