4 ms·

I've gone from 6b to 7a. Winters almost do not exist here in the mid-Atlantic. Sure, there are some cold snaps, but they do not last as long as 20 to 30 years

I've gone from 6b to 7a. Winters almost do not exist here in the mid-Atlantic. Sure, there are some cold snaps, but they do not last as long as 20 to 30 years ago. Snowfall? Getting less and less with an occasional nor'easter here and there. Ancedotally, in late February, I had to mow the lawn. We've started measuring TTFF. (Time-to-first-frost). Historically, it was in early to mid October for decades. Now it's pushing mid-November. The growing seasons are longer, for sure.

kbenson 2y ago
> Winters almost do not exist here ... Snowfall? Getting less and less with an occasional nor'easter here and there. That seems like a regional saying, which translates very poorly to an online global audience. I read winters almost do not exist and assumed you were being more literal than "there's less snow". It's snowed here 2-3 times in the last couple decades, each time for maybe a minute or two. I still wouldn't say we don't have a winter. For this area, winter is when it rains. Which is different than summer because there's no rain in the summer, almost ever (maybe one day on average as freak weather). Edit: I seem to have struck a nerve here, but I'm not sure why noting that a particular turn of phrase might be confusing to people from other areas would do so.
- monkburger 2y ago
  Our last big snowstorm was in 2016. Afterwards we were in a snowfall drought for years (well below average) We had a few close calls for big snow, but they never materialized. This is unheard of. Even during strong El Nino patterns, the east coast is supposed to receive good snowfall. It did not happen. Even with a -NAO, -AO, +PNA!
  - kbenson 2y ago
    My point was that in some areas they equate winter with snow, and reduction of snow seems to be interpreted as no winter. If the weather patter is still notably different than summer, it's winter. Equating snow in the current area to winter and lack of it to not being winter is a regional thing. It makes certain statements, like "winters almost do not exist here" come across very differently to people in other regions, which what what I was trying to express. For example, my initial interpretation of your early statements in that comment was that you were saying there's little difference between fall and spring from winter, that your winters don't have a noticeable difference to the other seasons. From the rest of your comment it sounds like it's just somewhat milder than it used to be, but still notably different weather pattern.
TylerE 2y ago
Here in quasi-coastal NC, I'm down to maybe 10 days a year wearing long pants. It got up to 71F New Years Day this year, and February had days in the 80s (and none below freezing). There's basically pollen season, summer, fall, repeat. It doesn't seem to be much colder, if at all, in January than November. i barely ever see my breath. Not at all how it was in the exact town 35 years ago as a kid. It wasn't frigid, even then, but we had a real Winter season where it would consistently stay cold for 3-4 months. Now, even though it can get cold, it seems like you have a "nice day" weekend at least once a month.
- monkburger 2y ago
  Indeed. We have a very limited winter. There are often more warm days than cold days. The last time I had to use my snowblower was in a mega snowstorm during the winter of 2015/2016. That is simply unheard of! (at least here)
- genewitch 2y ago
  I saw my breath outside, yesterday, in louisiana. It was 66 degrees and slightly raining. edit: I don't think this has solely to do with the ambient temperature and more to do with wet bulb temperatures.
linuxftw 2y ago
Hardiness zones are about the minimum temperature. This doesn't impact annuals, but perennial crops such as fruit trees, the minimum is the most important metric. It doesn't matter if you hit -3 degrees (for example) once a decade, or once a year, it will kill your orchard. This map update is nonsense for my area.
- Ylpertnodi 2y ago
  -3F or -3C?
genewitch 2y ago
here in louisiana it's snowed 3 times in the last 11 years. It routinely will go several days at a hard freeze. It very nearly is always at or below freezing at night. I have a CSV of 5-minute granularity temperatures going back several years (at least 5 years). It's gotten to freezing in southern california, in that decade, as well - at night. Growing up there, it never did, but around 2002 or so it got to 30 one night. I have friends in the PNW, utah, colorado, texas. The US has a long cycle, and listening to people who have either moved around a lot or not been alive for more than 1 cycle is funny to me. I enjoy talking to old timers, especially about nature. Prior to 2021, the year everyone made fun of Texans, there was 1 large freeze in the early or mid 2000s, where ice formed on power lines and broke the lines. Prior to that, it hadn't happened for at least 30 years to anyone's recollection. Oh, and i live in a sub-tropical rainforest. It rained exactly 5" this weekend - i just went and checked. I comment a lot about the weather on my boring facebook account, so i can see all the times it's rained more than an inch or two - or where rain was predicted but didn't appear. Come summertime, when it's "the hottest ever recorded", there will be different arguments from one side, as usual.

kbenson 2y ago

> Winters almost do not exist here ... Snowfall? Getting less and less with an occasional nor'easter here and there. That seems like a regional saying, which translates very poorly to an online global audience. I read winters almost do not exist and assumed you were being more literal than "there's less snow". It's snowed here 2-3 times in the last couple decades, each time for maybe a minute or two. I still wouldn't say we don't have a winter. For this area, winter is when it rains. Which is different than summer because there's no rain in the summer, almost ever (maybe one day on average as freak weather). Edit: I seem to have struck a nerve here, but I'm not sure why noting that a particular turn of phrase might be confusing to people from other areas would do so.

monkburger 2y ago
Our last big snowstorm was in 2016. Afterwards we were in a snowfall drought for years (well below average) We had a few close calls for big snow, but they never materialized. This is unheard of. Even during strong El Nino patterns, the east coast is supposed to receive good snowfall. It did not happen. Even with a -NAO, -AO, +PNA!
- kbenson 2y ago
  My point was that in some areas they equate winter with snow, and reduction of snow seems to be interpreted as no winter. If the weather patter is still notably different than summer, it's winter. Equating snow in the current area to winter and lack of it to not being winter is a regional thing. It makes certain statements, like "winters almost do not exist here" come across very differently to people in other regions, which what what I was trying to express. For example, my initial interpretation of your early statements in that comment was that you were saying there's little difference between fall and spring from winter, that your winters don't have a noticeable difference to the other seasons. From the rest of your comment it sounds like it's just somewhat milder than it used to be, but still notably different weather pattern.

TylerE 2y ago

Here in quasi-coastal NC, I'm down to maybe 10 days a year wearing long pants. It got up to 71F New Years Day this year, and February had days in the 80s (and none below freezing). There's basically pollen season, summer, fall, repeat. It doesn't seem to be much colder, if at all, in January than November. i barely ever see my breath. Not at all how it was in the exact town 35 years ago as a kid. It wasn't frigid, even then, but we had a real Winter season where it would consistently stay cold for 3-4 months. Now, even though it can get cold, it seems like you have a "nice day" weekend at least once a month.

monkburger 2y ago
Indeed. We have a very limited winter. There are often more warm days than cold days. The last time I had to use my snowblower was in a mega snowstorm during the winter of 2015/2016. That is simply unheard of! (at least here)
genewitch 2y ago
I saw my breath outside, yesterday, in louisiana. It was 66 degrees and slightly raining. edit: I don't think this has solely to do with the ambient temperature and more to do with wet bulb temperatures.

linuxftw 2y ago

Hardiness zones are about the minimum temperature. This doesn't impact annuals, but perennial crops such as fruit trees, the minimum is the most important metric. It doesn't matter if you hit -3 degrees (for example) once a decade, or once a year, it will kill your orchard. This map update is nonsense for my area.

Ylpertnodi 2y ago
-3F or -3C?

genewitch 2y ago

here in louisiana it's snowed 3 times in the last 11 years. It routinely will go several days at a hard freeze. It very nearly is always at or below freezing at night. I have a CSV of 5-minute granularity temperatures going back several years (at least 5 years). It's gotten to freezing in southern california, in that decade, as well - at night. Growing up there, it never did, but around 2002 or so it got to 30 one night. I have friends in the PNW, utah, colorado, texas. The US has a long cycle, and listening to people who have either moved around a lot or not been alive for more than 1 cycle is funny to me. I enjoy talking to old timers, especially about nature. Prior to 2021, the year everyone made fun of Texans, there was 1 large freeze in the early or mid 2000s, where ice formed on power lines and broke the lines. Prior to that, it hadn't happened for at least 30 years to anyone's recollection. Oh, and i live in a sub-tropical rainforest. It rained exactly 5" this weekend - i just went and checked. I comment a lot about the weather on my boring facebook account, so i can see all the times it's rained more than an inch or two - or where rain was predicted but didn't appear. Come summertime, when it's "the hottest ever recorded", there will be different arguments from one side, as usual.