6 ms·

Thank you. That website was an abomination. Scrolling to do anything but move the content up should be highly discouraged.

Workaccount2 2y ago
The difference between people who look at data to be informed and people who look at data to feel informed.
- jameshart 2y ago
  The website linked is a news article, not a map.
  - toss1 2y ago
    Yes, and the complaint is that news should be about informing, not about entertaining to make people feel informed [0]. This is more infotainment than information. [0] This concept implemented at scale by Roger Ailes, founder of Fox news, who famously said "Our viewers don't want be informed, they want to feel informed", which became the motto of the newsroom One ref among many: https://www.marketplace.org/2017/05/18/roger-ailes-transformed-american-politics-contact-sport/ https://www.marketplace.org/2017/05/18/roger-ailes-transform...
    - jameshart 2y ago
      The article provides useful context about how much the hardiness grades have changed, where, and why; it provides context about what these ratings do and don’t mean; it adds context about other climate changes that aren’t captured in this data; and it frames it with advice about planting, underpinned by a visually interesting data plot, and a tool that allows you to explore that data in a way that makes it personally relevant to you. Why on earth would you choose an article like this to jump on a hobby horse about infotainment?
      - toss1 2y ago
        I found it only marginally informative, the "interactive" map didn't work as well as I expected, and overall I found it disappointingly info-tainment-ish. I would not have said anything, but seeing the prior two comment, I responded to add something; sorry you found it disappointing, but my intent was not to "jump on a hobby horse about infotainment".
        jameshart 2y ago
        You probably didn’t scroll down very far then. Did you already know that these ‘hardiness’ climate zones are only based on mean winter minimum temperature? They say nothing about drought prevalence, peak heat, or the timing, frequency and duration of cold snaps? If you did, well, sure, this probably wouldn’t have been very informative. But for anyone for whom all that was news, this is pretty good information - and in particular is valuable context over and above just a raw map of the zones.
        toss1 2y ago
        Yes, I did know that, and I did scroll down to the bottom. Even though it contained some good information, I just thought it was presented in a way that excessively got in the way of actually understanding and using the info, and that the graphic presentation was lame, just A:B with a very constrained and poorly working city-picker box (said enter city, wouldn't work or even give an error message unless you entered only one of the cities they actually had in their list, so should have been presented as a drop-down, not a free-entry box), didn't show the areas where there were differences vs stayed in the same zone, etc. etc. etc.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - burkaman 2y ago
      Just looking at the map doesn't tell you what hardiness zone means or how to apply (and not apply) this knowledge. I would say it makes you feel informed by teaching you a piece of trivia ("I'm in zone 8a") without actually informing you by giving you the tools to use what you've learned.
      - supplied_demand 2y ago
        ==without actually informing you by giving you the tools to use what you've learned== The title of the article doesn't imply that it will teach you how to implement. The title explicitly states it is a map to show you the shift in zones, and it does that very clearly.
- digitalsushi 2y ago
  i find that opinion somewhat gatekeepy and i disagree with it
  - bombcar 2y ago
    It may be gatekeepy but it nailed it; this type of website is an entertainment product, not an actual data product. That may not be bad but it may not be what you wanted.
    - baq 2y ago
      Not really. It is a tutorial-class material. What you want when you say 'just give me the map' is a reference-class material. Anecdotally I learned a lot from this - haven't even been aware of the concept.
    - nozzlegear 2y ago
      This is also gatekeepy. You don't need to be a stats dweeb staring at maps and raw data points to be or become informed.
    - karaterobot 2y ago
      No, it's an educational product. It is a walkthrough explaining the context and meaning of the map for those poor, ignorant people who don't know everything already. All you have to do to dismiss it forever is click a single button, "explore map", which is always on the top left of the screen.
    - dyauspitr 2y ago
      It’s an educational product. A product where someone looks at masses of data, pulls out the salient points and presents them directly. Why would most people want to go to a site with csv files for weather data in every zip code?
    - HelloMcFly 2y ago
      It's a gentle - and to my eyes effective - introduction and overview on a topic many people have heard about but most have probably not really read or considered further. It wasn't just meant to be a "look at old vs. new map" - it had a lot more context and information than that compiled for personal relevance and easy of understanding.
- cameronh90 2y ago
  Many people absorb information better when it's presented in a more easily consumable format.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - hightrix 2y ago
    Agreed, but I would consider https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/ https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/ to be much more easily consumed than the NPR article. As another said, scrolling to do anything but move content up and down is a miserable experience for some people.
dyauspitr 2y ago
I disagree. I liked the experience. It wasn’t jittery and the content was short enough to be presented in that format.
kps 2y ago
It also doesn't respect `:prefers-reduced-motion` or `:prefers-color-scheme`.
Repulsion9513 2y ago
Even once I got to the end I couldn't actually use the map because the left side of it (with the legend and year-switcher) was off-screen :) best web design A++
riedel 2y ago
It worked for me sewhat after I understood the interaction and was somehow nice UX (I agree that there is better option for immediately better usability) However, I think even considering UX, there are clearly interaction hints missing to encourage the scrolling interaction in the first place. Secondly, it makes it really hard to find information again after reading it once sequentially. A menu type thing would probably fix that as well.
- danginurass 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - dyauspitr 2y ago
    [flagged]

Workaccount2 2y ago

The difference between people who look at data to be informed and people who look at data to feel informed.

jameshart 2y ago
The website linked is a news article, not a map.
- toss1 2y ago
  Yes, and the complaint is that news should be about informing, not about entertaining to make people feel informed [0]. This is more infotainment than information. [0] This concept implemented at scale by Roger Ailes, founder of Fox news, who famously said "Our viewers don't want be informed, they want to feel informed", which became the motto of the newsroom One ref among many: https://www.marketplace.org/2017/05/18/roger-ailes-transformed-american-politics-contact-sport/ https://www.marketplace.org/2017/05/18/roger-ailes-transform...
  - jameshart 2y ago
    The article provides useful context about how much the hardiness grades have changed, where, and why; it provides context about what these ratings do and don’t mean; it adds context about other climate changes that aren’t captured in this data; and it frames it with advice about planting, underpinned by a visually interesting data plot, and a tool that allows you to explore that data in a way that makes it personally relevant to you. Why on earth would you choose an article like this to jump on a hobby horse about infotainment?
    - toss1 2y ago
      I found it only marginally informative, the "interactive" map didn't work as well as I expected, and overall I found it disappointingly info-tainment-ish. I would not have said anything, but seeing the prior two comment, I responded to add something; sorry you found it disappointing, but my intent was not to "jump on a hobby horse about infotainment".
      - jameshart 2y ago
        You probably didn’t scroll down very far then. Did you already know that these ‘hardiness’ climate zones are only based on mean winter minimum temperature? They say nothing about drought prevalence, peak heat, or the timing, frequency and duration of cold snaps? If you did, well, sure, this probably wouldn’t have been very informative. But for anyone for whom all that was news, this is pretty good information - and in particular is valuable context over and above just a raw map of the zones.
        toss1 2y ago
        Yes, I did know that, and I did scroll down to the bottom. Even though it contained some good information, I just thought it was presented in a way that excessively got in the way of actually understanding and using the info, and that the graphic presentation was lame, just A:B with a very constrained and poorly working city-picker box (said enter city, wouldn't work or even give an error message unless you entered only one of the cities they actually had in their list, so should have been presented as a drop-down, not a free-entry box), didn't show the areas where there were differences vs stayed in the same zone, etc. etc. etc.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  - burkaman 2y ago
    Just looking at the map doesn't tell you what hardiness zone means or how to apply (and not apply) this knowledge. I would say it makes you feel informed by teaching you a piece of trivia ("I'm in zone 8a") without actually informing you by giving you the tools to use what you've learned.
    - supplied_demand 2y ago
      ==without actually informing you by giving you the tools to use what you've learned== The title of the article doesn't imply that it will teach you how to implement. The title explicitly states it is a map to show you the shift in zones, and it does that very clearly.
digitalsushi 2y ago
i find that opinion somewhat gatekeepy and i disagree with it
- bombcar 2y ago
  It may be gatekeepy but it nailed it; this type of website is an entertainment product, not an actual data product. That may not be bad but it may not be what you wanted.
  - baq 2y ago
    Not really. It is a tutorial-class material. What you want when you say 'just give me the map' is a reference-class material. Anecdotally I learned a lot from this - haven't even been aware of the concept.
  - nozzlegear 2y ago
    This is also gatekeepy. You don't need to be a stats dweeb staring at maps and raw data points to be or become informed.
  - karaterobot 2y ago
    No, it's an educational product. It is a walkthrough explaining the context and meaning of the map for those poor, ignorant people who don't know everything already. All you have to do to dismiss it forever is click a single button, "explore map", which is always on the top left of the screen.
  - dyauspitr 2y ago
    It’s an educational product. A product where someone looks at masses of data, pulls out the salient points and presents them directly. Why would most people want to go to a site with csv files for weather data in every zip code?
  - HelloMcFly 2y ago
    It's a gentle - and to my eyes effective - introduction and overview on a topic many people have heard about but most have probably not really read or considered further. It wasn't just meant to be a "look at old vs. new map" - it had a lot more context and information than that compiled for personal relevance and easy of understanding.
cameronh90 2y ago
Many people absorb information better when it's presented in a more easily consumable format.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- hightrix 2y ago
  Agreed, but I would consider https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/ https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/ to be much more easily consumed than the NPR article. As another said, scrolling to do anything but move content up and down is a miserable experience for some people.

dyauspitr 2y ago

I disagree. I liked the experience. It wasn’t jittery and the content was short enough to be presented in that format.

kps 2y ago

It also doesn't respect `:prefers-reduced-motion` or `:prefers-color-scheme`.

Repulsion9513 2y ago

Even once I got to the end I couldn't actually use the map because the left side of it (with the legend and year-switcher) was off-screen :) best web design A++

riedel 2y ago

It worked for me sewhat after I understood the interaction and was somehow nice UX (I agree that there is better option for immediately better usability) However, I think even considering UX, there are clearly interaction hints missing to encourage the scrolling interaction in the first place. Secondly, it makes it really hard to find information again after reading it once sequentially. A menu type thing would probably fix that as well.

danginurass 2y ago
[flagged]
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  [flagged]