6 ms·

Frank Ramsey: A genius by all tests for genius (2020)

61 points by EndXA 2y ago

readthenotes1 2y ago
The irony of a "genius by all tests" ending his life by swimming in a polluted river is tragic, and human.
- JackMorgan 2y ago
  Only if being a genius means you can never have a lapse of judgement. As a counterpoint, the smartest people I know do all kinds of risky behaviors. If anything one might call it a coping mechanism.
  - cbsmith 2y ago
    > Only if being a genius means you can never have a lapse of judgement. > > As a counterpoint, the smartest people I know do all kinds of risky behaviors. If anything one might call it a coping mechanism. Do we know that it was a lapse in judgement? I'm thinking that's outcome bias. It's speculated that it was the cause of death, but we don't know that. If it was a known risky behaviour, you'd have thought it would have been identified by doctors (it was well known that he swam in the river a lot) and at least these days it's not considered risky behaviour. Either way, a lapse in judgement would imply that the risks outweighed the rewards (and the value of the rewards tends to be personal/contextual).
kleiba 2y ago
> Although Ramsey was employed by Cambridge as a mathematician, he only published eight pages of pure mathematics. But those eight pages yielded impressive results. Be that as it may, but with just eight papers to your name, you'd be gone out of any position in today's academia faster than you can say "key performance indicator".
- mitthrowaway2 2y ago
  Eight pages.
  - kleiba 2y ago
    Oh, wow, I missed that.
  - A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
    > those eight pages yielded impressive results. I'm not exaggerating when I say that this is the most wild understatement I've read all year. Or were they going for deadpan humor? Ramsey's responsible for the famous theory that bears his name. The core concept of Ramsey Theory is this: Regardless of how extensive and complex a system S is, and no matter how large a positive integer n is, it is possible to find a sufficiently large super system Q that includes S. In such a way, no matter how Q is colored using n colors, Q will always contain a monochromatic copy of S. So Ramsey Theory explores the mathematics of coloring, but it has exerted tremendous influence on 20th century mathematics more generally -- it works to elucidate a lot of notions surrounding infinite and finite sets. In fact, it's clearly among the most influential 20th century mathematical theories; Paul Erdős' storied career owed an awful lot to Ramsey, and Ramsey theory also inspired Ramsey's friend Ludwig Wittgenstein's work in analytic philosophy.
- tarentel 2y ago
  I was curious about this as well. Apparently he died when he was 26. By today's standards most people would still be working on their PhD at that age.
- QuesnayJr 2y ago
  Didn't Yitang Zhang end up a full professor at UC Santa Barbara on the basis of a single paper?
- pfdietz 2y ago
  The key indicator was having a branch of mathematics named after you.
karaterobot 2y ago
> In 1999, Donald Davidson, a leading philosopher of the twentieth century, coined the term ‘the Ramsey Effect’: the phenomenon of discovering that an exciting and apparently original philosophical discovery already has been presented, and presented more elegantly, by Frank Ramsey. Kind of a nice legacy I guess, considering the short career.
dang 2y ago
Discussed at the time (of the article): Frank Ramsey: A Genius by All Tests for Genius - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22321970 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22321970 - Feb 2020 (23 comments) Also: Frank Ramsey: A more human philosophy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24320717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24320717 - Aug 2020 (2 comments) Frank Ramsey – The Man Who Thought Too Fast - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23011233 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23011233 - April 2020 (122 comments)
adolph 2y ago
He also would have loathed those who used his results to argue that the best economy is one generated by the decisions of individuals, with minimal government intrusion. He was a socialist who favored government intervention to help the disadvantaged in society. The genius of this viewpoint brings to mind: “The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine the can design.” ― F. A. Hayek, The Fatal Conceit: The Errors of Socialism (Volume 1)
- wslh 2y ago
  Socialism is interpreted differently depending who and where you ask. Do you mean social democracy? Like, for example, Germany.
  - adolph 2y ago
    Ask Ramsey or the review author whose words were quoted. I think he was a totalitarian commie out of intellectual hubris but maybe you will have a different interpretation.
    - wslh 2y ago
      It is good to include context here in HN since there are a lot of people from different cultures and generations and concepts could sound ambiguous.
    - AtlasBarfed 2y ago
      We view any broad bases planning and restriction as totalitarian because such things can seemingly only be implemented by such structures. I submit to you that the most brutal totalitarian existence is hard natural truths when the good times end and famine, war, plague, or pestilence come riding. Or the new horseman: nuclear assured destruction. Basically really smart people all seem to sense that a higher form of societal conduct is needed to avoid the totalitarianism of environmental Armageddon, but there is no way to do it without lesser totalitarianism.
- astrange 2y ago
jaco6 2y ago
Can anyone identify and enumerate the "tests for genius" that Ramsey passed? Edit: Found them. They are Samuelson's own criteria: 1. Test of Time: Samuelson suggested that the work of a genius economist should stand the test of time, remaining relevant and influential long after its initial publication. 2. Transcendence of Paradigms: Genius economists should be able to transcend prevailing paradigms and make significant contributions that reshape the field of economics. 3. Originality and Creativity: Samuelson emphasized the importance of originality and creativity in the work of genius economists, highlighting their ability to generate novel ideas and insights. 4. Broad Influence: Genius economists should have a broad influence beyond their own specialized areas of research, impacting the broader discipline of economics. 5. Impact on Policy: Samuelson suggested that the work of genius economists should have practical implications and influence policy-making decisions. 6. Pedagogical Impact: Genius economists should also have a significant impact on economic education, shaping the way economics is taught and understood by future generations of students.
- AtlasBarfed 2y ago
  Yeah but economics is fundamentally shaped by the theories that validate and authorize the rich to be as rich as they want. The field of economics is fatally poisoned by it. I'm obviously pretty cynical about the dismal conscience, particularly because it has proven almost useless in crafting broad policy in the age of global warming and sharp environmental decline. Quite to the contrary "economics" has been used to maximize consumption, and has little application in any other context. Any real genius of economics would tear the whole teetering tower of self importance to the ground.
PyWoody 2y ago
The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy has a nice biography and overview of his Philosophical and Mathematical contributions[0] as well as a nice summary of his Economic contributions[1], if anyone is looking for some additional context/information wrt Ramsey. [0] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ramsey/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ramsey/ [1] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ramsey-economics/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ramsey-economics/

61 points by EndXA 2y ago

readthenotes1 2y ago

The irony of a "genius by all tests" ending his life by swimming in a polluted river is tragic, and human.

JackMorgan 2y ago
Only if being a genius means you can never have a lapse of judgement. As a counterpoint, the smartest people I know do all kinds of risky behaviors. If anything one might call it a coping mechanism.
- cbsmith 2y ago
  > Only if being a genius means you can never have a lapse of judgement. > > As a counterpoint, the smartest people I know do all kinds of risky behaviors. If anything one might call it a coping mechanism. Do we know that it was a lapse in judgement? I'm thinking that's outcome bias. It's speculated that it was the cause of death, but we don't know that. If it was a known risky behaviour, you'd have thought it would have been identified by doctors (it was well known that he swam in the river a lot) and at least these days it's not considered risky behaviour. Either way, a lapse in judgement would imply that the risks outweighed the rewards (and the value of the rewards tends to be personal/contextual).

kleiba 2y ago

> Although Ramsey was employed by Cambridge as a mathematician, he only published eight pages of pure mathematics. But those eight pages yielded impressive results. Be that as it may, but with just eight papers to your name, you'd be gone out of any position in today's academia faster than you can say "key performance indicator".

mitthrowaway2 2y ago
Eight pages.
- kleiba 2y ago
  Oh, wow, I missed that.
- A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
  > those eight pages yielded impressive results. I'm not exaggerating when I say that this is the most wild understatement I've read all year. Or were they going for deadpan humor? Ramsey's responsible for the famous theory that bears his name. The core concept of Ramsey Theory is this: Regardless of how extensive and complex a system S is, and no matter how large a positive integer n is, it is possible to find a sufficiently large super system Q that includes S. In such a way, no matter how Q is colored using n colors, Q will always contain a monochromatic copy of S. So Ramsey Theory explores the mathematics of coloring, but it has exerted tremendous influence on 20th century mathematics more generally -- it works to elucidate a lot of notions surrounding infinite and finite sets. In fact, it's clearly among the most influential 20th century mathematical theories; Paul Erdős' storied career owed an awful lot to Ramsey, and Ramsey theory also inspired Ramsey's friend Ludwig Wittgenstein's work in analytic philosophy.
tarentel 2y ago
I was curious about this as well. Apparently he died when he was 26. By today's standards most people would still be working on their PhD at that age.
QuesnayJr 2y ago
Didn't Yitang Zhang end up a full professor at UC Santa Barbara on the basis of a single paper?
pfdietz 2y ago
The key indicator was having a branch of mathematics named after you.

karaterobot 2y ago

> In 1999, Donald Davidson, a leading philosopher of the twentieth century, coined the term ‘the Ramsey Effect’: the phenomenon of discovering that an exciting and apparently original philosophical discovery already has been presented, and presented more elegantly, by Frank Ramsey. Kind of a nice legacy I guess, considering the short career.

dang 2y ago

Discussed at the time (of the article): Frank Ramsey: A Genius by All Tests for Genius - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22321970 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22321970 - Feb 2020 (23 comments) Also: Frank Ramsey: A more human philosophy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24320717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24320717 - Aug 2020 (2 comments) Frank Ramsey – The Man Who Thought Too Fast - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23011233 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23011233 - April 2020 (122 comments)

adolph 2y ago

He also would have loathed those who used his results to argue that the best economy is one generated by the decisions of individuals, with minimal government intrusion. He was a socialist who favored government intervention to help the disadvantaged in society. The genius of this viewpoint brings to mind: “The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine the can design.” ― F. A. Hayek, The Fatal Conceit: The Errors of Socialism (Volume 1)

wslh 2y ago
Socialism is interpreted differently depending who and where you ask. Do you mean social democracy? Like, for example, Germany.
- adolph 2y ago
  Ask Ramsey or the review author whose words were quoted. I think he was a totalitarian commie out of intellectual hubris but maybe you will have a different interpretation.
  - wslh 2y ago
    It is good to include context here in HN since there are a lot of people from different cultures and generations and concepts could sound ambiguous.
  - AtlasBarfed 2y ago
    We view any broad bases planning and restriction as totalitarian because such things can seemingly only be implemented by such structures. I submit to you that the most brutal totalitarian existence is hard natural truths when the good times end and famine, war, plague, or pestilence come riding. Or the new horseman: nuclear assured destruction. Basically really smart people all seem to sense that a higher form of societal conduct is needed to avoid the totalitarianism of environmental Armageddon, but there is no way to do it without lesser totalitarianism.
astrange 2y ago

jaco6 2y ago

Can anyone identify and enumerate the "tests for genius" that Ramsey passed? Edit: Found them. They are Samuelson's own criteria: 1. Test of Time: Samuelson suggested that the work of a genius economist should stand the test of time, remaining relevant and influential long after its initial publication. 2. Transcendence of Paradigms: Genius economists should be able to transcend prevailing paradigms and make significant contributions that reshape the field of economics. 3. Originality and Creativity: Samuelson emphasized the importance of originality and creativity in the work of genius economists, highlighting their ability to generate novel ideas and insights. 4. Broad Influence: Genius economists should have a broad influence beyond their own specialized areas of research, impacting the broader discipline of economics. 5. Impact on Policy: Samuelson suggested that the work of genius economists should have practical implications and influence policy-making decisions. 6. Pedagogical Impact: Genius economists should also have a significant impact on economic education, shaping the way economics is taught and understood by future generations of students.

AtlasBarfed 2y ago
Yeah but economics is fundamentally shaped by the theories that validate and authorize the rich to be as rich as they want. The field of economics is fatally poisoned by it. I'm obviously pretty cynical about the dismal conscience, particularly because it has proven almost useless in crafting broad policy in the age of global warming and sharp environmental decline. Quite to the contrary "economics" has been used to maximize consumption, and has little application in any other context. Any real genius of economics would tear the whole teetering tower of self importance to the ground.

PyWoody 2y ago

The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy has a nice biography and overview of his Philosophical and Mathematical contributions[0] as well as a nice summary of his Economic contributions[1], if anyone is looking for some additional context/information wrt Ramsey. [0] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ramsey/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ramsey/ [1] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ramsey-economics/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ramsey-economics/