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On Signal vs Telegram: Telegrams Encryption is off most of the time. They have serverside access to messages. The optional E2E is annoying to use and isnt even

On Signal vs Telegram: Telegrams Encryption is off most of the time. They have serverside access to messages. The optional E2E is annoying to use and isnt even available on every platform. For example Tdesktop afaik still has no E2E support. (And has a very brittle software architecture.) You can't register Telegram accounts with the open source client anymore. This should be a non-Discussion. MG implying that just because other messengers like Whatsapp use Signals encryption scheme does not make them more more trustworthy. Yes you can verify in a binary if the stuff is implemented well. But if a vendor has control over the update channel or beta rollout features its kinda easy to hide targeted features. Wasn't Whatsapp caught exfiltrating chats in ways that don't involve the normal channel bypassing E2E? Btw there is no Signal in Fdroid but nowadays there is an accepted by upstream third party implementation. You could separate software and infra vendor. Look at Molly.im Better to bring non tech folk to Signal than to other messengers that do the same but less protected. Matrix? Lol!

nurumaik 2y ago
You can buy "anonymous number" on fragment without using any client and without providing any personal information and use it as much as you can When signal becomes at least remotely as popular as telegram it will implement same protection to fight against spammers because you can't have free unrestricted registrations and don't drown in spam Telegram currently makes it as accessible as possible: either use it freely but register using phone number and official app or pay and use anonymously as you want
- aniviacat 2y ago
  I just looked at the fragment.com site to see how much such a number costs. The lowest possible bid you can currently make, and that is for an auction that has six days to go, so probably not even the final price, is over 100$. That is an unacceptable price for basic privacy.
- tapoxi 2y ago
  Signal is already extremely popular, their anti-spam by default is that you need to get matched to the user's local contact list or the spam becomes an allow/deny prompt. They also require a confirmed phone number and handle registration throttling.
raxxorraxor 2y ago
Both services are relatively insecure because they require phone authentication. In the EU at least the number can always be traced back to you if you don't buy specific burner phones. The level of encryption isn't as important anymore at that point. It is less probable you get into problems by using a service that doesn't know your identity.
- Marsymars 2y ago
  > Both services are relatively insecure because they require phone authentication. That hasn't been the case for Signal for some months: https://signal.org/blog/phone-number-privacy-usernames/ https://signal.org/blog/phone-number-privacy-usernames/ You still require a phone number for sign up for Signal, but your phone number isn't visible to anyone you chat with.
  - Sebb767 2y ago
    > but your phone number isn't visible to anyone you chat with. That's irrelevant - the phone number is known to Signal and can be request by law enforcement. And, since it's been made pretty much impossible to buy a SIM in the EU without showing identification [0], this will allow law enforcement to link the account to you. [0] IIRC the Netherlands is the only country left where you can buy SIMs without ID.
    - Marsymars 2y ago
      > That's irrelevant - the phone number is known to Signal and can be request by law enforcement. Maybe I'm missing something here, but if usernames are treated as ephemeral, what's the threat model here?
    - growse 2y ago
      > That's irrelevant - the phone number is known to Signal and can be request by law enforcement. So how does this work? Law enforcement asks signal if they have an account for a phone number, signal saying "yes, here's when they created it". Then what?

nurumaik 2y ago

You can buy "anonymous number" on fragment without using any client and without providing any personal information and use it as much as you can When signal becomes at least remotely as popular as telegram it will implement same protection to fight against spammers because you can't have free unrestricted registrations and don't drown in spam Telegram currently makes it as accessible as possible: either use it freely but register using phone number and official app or pay and use anonymously as you want

aniviacat 2y ago
I just looked at the fragment.com site to see how much such a number costs. The lowest possible bid you can currently make, and that is for an auction that has six days to go, so probably not even the final price, is over 100$. That is an unacceptable price for basic privacy.
tapoxi 2y ago
Signal is already extremely popular, their anti-spam by default is that you need to get matched to the user's local contact list or the spam becomes an allow/deny prompt. They also require a confirmed phone number and handle registration throttling.

raxxorraxor 2y ago

Both services are relatively insecure because they require phone authentication. In the EU at least the number can always be traced back to you if you don't buy specific burner phones. The level of encryption isn't as important anymore at that point. It is less probable you get into problems by using a service that doesn't know your identity.

Marsymars 2y ago
> Both services are relatively insecure because they require phone authentication. That hasn't been the case for Signal for some months: https://signal.org/blog/phone-number-privacy-usernames/ https://signal.org/blog/phone-number-privacy-usernames/ You still require a phone number for sign up for Signal, but your phone number isn't visible to anyone you chat with.
- Sebb767 2y ago
  > but your phone number isn't visible to anyone you chat with. That's irrelevant - the phone number is known to Signal and can be request by law enforcement. And, since it's been made pretty much impossible to buy a SIM in the EU without showing identification [0], this will allow law enforcement to link the account to you. [0] IIRC the Netherlands is the only country left where you can buy SIMs without ID.
  - Marsymars 2y ago
    > That's irrelevant - the phone number is known to Signal and can be request by law enforcement. Maybe I'm missing something here, but if usernames are treated as ephemeral, what's the threat model here?
  - growse 2y ago
    > That's irrelevant - the phone number is known to Signal and can be request by law enforcement. So how does this work? Law enforcement asks signal if they have an account for a phone number, signal saying "yes, here's when they created it". Then what?